Building Fire regs staircase from kitchen

[cyclonebri2]

Can anyone give me a basis rundown on any regs re fire protection in a house where the stairs lead up from the kitchen.

It's a five bed house on two storeys, the kichen has doors of to the dining room hall and outside. Their is no door to the stairs ie they are open top and bottom.

Mains smoke and heat detectors hace been fitted, no fire rated doors

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

What is your question? Generally you have a protected means of escape from all habitable rooms ie bedrooms & living/dinning rooms via a staircase or hallway and out to an exit door and generally the kitchen is accessed off one of these protected routes. You need to ask a more specific question and provide a sketch of the layout for a more specific answer.

 

[cyclonebri2]

What is your question? Generally you have a protected means of escape from all habitable rooms ie bedrooms & living/dinning rooms via a staircase or hallway and out to an exit door and generally the kitchen is accessed off one of these protected routes. You need to ask a more specific question and provide a sketch of the layout for a more specific answer.

Sorry if it's not clear. The situation is as above. The staircase does descend directly to the kitchen. The question is with that scenario am I in breech of any planning/fire regs

I know it's not ideal, but is it legal??
Cheers.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Like I said, generally, that is to say it depends on what was approved and when it was constructed. Older houses have layouts that would not comply with current regs but they are not illegal. Like I say it depends on many factors including the layout and when it was built or works to change the layout if applicable. Only if you can answer these questions can one confirm if it is illegal per se.

 

[cyclonebri2]

Like I said, generally, that is to say it depends on what was approved and when it was constructed. Older houses have layouts that would not comply with current regs but they are not illegal. Like I say it depends on many factors including the layout and when it was built or works to change the layout if applicable. Only if you can answer these questions can one confirm if it is illegal per se.

It did recently go through planning and building regs without any any reference to special requirements. It was only when a joiner made a comment that we started to worry a little as we have not had the final inspection yet

 

[DevilDamo]

Is this a house that already had the works carried out or are they works you're currently carrying out?

If the plans were approved by Building Control showing that layout, then they can't or should not pick it up on their final inspection.

 

[cyclonebri2]

Is this a house that already had the works carried out or are they works you're currently carrying out?

If the plans were approved by Building Control showing that layout, then they can't or should not pick it up on their final inspection.

It is a conversion but fully approved for the use mentioned, not to worried now advised correctly. Upstairs also has 2 set of french doors with Juliet balconies so easy excape routes

 

[jeds]

Stairs should not pass through a kitchen (or any other habitable room come to that) unless you have a second escape route from the upper rooms. That means a second staircase from the upper landing or escape from each habitable room - i.e. via a window or external door. The windows should comply with minimum dimensions and sill heights and are only acceptable on the first floor - if you have three floors this would not comply.

 

[big-all]

is this a single domestic dwelling
or a residence off multiple occupancy!!

 

[noseall]

A kitchen on its own is not a habitable room. Kitchen/diners are.

 

[cyclonebri2]

Stairs should not pass through a kitchen (or any other habitable room come to that) unless you have a second escape route from the upper rooms. That means a second staircase from the upper landing or escape from each habitable room - i.e. via a window or external door. The windows should comply with minimum dimensions and sill heights and are only acceptable on the first floor - if you have three floors this would not comply.

That's what the joiner I mentioned told me, it does however appear to be incorrect though, Yes you wouldn't design it that way from scratch, but things change. Thanks anyway.

 

[cyclonebri2]

is this a single domestic dwelling
or a residence off multiple occupancy!!

Single occupancy on 2 floors only

 

[jeds]

Stairs should not pass through a kitchen (or any other habitable room come to that) unless you have a second escape route from the upper rooms. That means a second staircase from the upper landing or escape from each habitable room - i.e. via a window or external door. The windows should comply with minimum dimensions and sill heights and are only acceptable on the first floor - if you have three floors this would not comply.

That's what the joiner I mentioned told me, it does however appear to be incorrect though, Yes you wouldn't design it that way from scratch, but things change. Thanks anyway.

Your joiner was correct. Not sure what you mean by things change. Nothing has changed here. That has aways been the regulation and still is. It applies, and remains correct, both for building from scratch and conversions.

 

[cyclonebri2]

Stairs should not pass through a kitchen (or any other habitable room come to that) unless you have a second escape route from the upper rooms. That means a second staircase from the upper landing or escape from each habitable room - i.e. via a window or external door. The windows should comply with minimum dimensions and sill heights and are only acceptable on the first floor - if you have three floors this would not comply.

That's what the joiner I mentioned told me, it does however appear to be incorrect though, Yes you wouldn't design it that way from scratch, but things change. Thanks anyway.

Your joiner was correct. Not sure what you mean by things change. Nothing has changed here. That has aways been the regulation and still is. It applies, and remains correct, both for building from scratch and conversions.

I mean that house designs change or evolve with time.

I must assume then that because there is secondary means of escape from all 1st floor habitable rooms, that the planning/building depts passed this without comment?. The consent was only granted in Sept '09.

Not quite sure how they would know about window cill heights/openings tho' as no questions were asked.

To be clear, is a kitchen a habitable room or not???

 

[jeds]

The habitable question is a red herring. The stairway must exit via a protected stair or corridor direct to outside and not through any room - habitable or not. If you have escape from all the first floor rooms you are OK. Planning aren't interested in technical issues. It's a building control thing and they should have checked that alternative escape was suitable.