Building reg drawings - will this do?

[pilsbury]

Embarking on a self build loft conversion. Had to get the structural calcs done for the floor and roof which seem pretty detailed. Enough for me to know what to put where to stop me destroying the house and hopefully to satisfy a full plans approval.

I was about to start some drawings for building regs by looking at examples off the internet, but on looking at what the SE has already drawn up, could I not just have a separate sheet with a list of specs on insulation and details? Would save me having to open a new pack of crayons.

let me know what you think. This is going to be a bit of work it out as I go - I know sound advice would be to get proper drawings produced, but that’s not how I roll. Fly by the seat of my pants and make it up as I go along whilst getting info along the way.

 

[tony1851]

I think they would ask for a couple of vertical cross-sections showing insulation etc, plus the stairs, to show compliance.
And maybe an elevation.

 

[pilsbury]

Cheers for your reply

I can do an insulation cross section pretty easily. Might even get on off the internet. Only has to be generic I suppose to show compliance.

stairs I can also do.

why the elevation? I thought that was more planning (which I don’t need) rather than regs.

 

[^woody^]

TBH, I can't see what you are actually doing, what's there and what's new

Fire precautions? Means of escape? Lower floor plans? Rafter layout? Floor layout? Stairs? Windows and ventilation? Dimensions?

"Section A-A" is not actually a section at A-A, BTW. And the cut lines don't line up!

Is the existing roof line at the bottom really not at 45°, ot the one above it not? And that front and rear ridge don't line up.

You may be better off just putting a building notice in, rather than get the plans ripped apart or rejected.

 

[Dodgyrog]

I'm toying with a loft conversion - local council BC advised the following "In particular we recommend that a Full Plans Application be made for a loft conversion. If a Building Notice is submitted, plans/drawings showing structural alterations and fire precautions will usually be requested for loft conversions and for any other work where complex designs might be involved."

HTH

 

[pilsbury]

Thanks all. A building notice might be the best bet. I did full plans for my extension, they took me ages to draw up and served little purpose to me. I suppose some peace of mind, but I know roughly what insulation, fire regs etc I need to adhere to. Kind of

The fees for full plans and building notice are the same from Birmingham city council. £480

Early on in my efforts to get some structural elements calculated, I was advised a private inspector could be more flexible on the fire door situation and be more open to work arounds. So I’m assuming that fee to Acivico (Birmingham council) wouldn’t apply and I’d go privately?

I know what the inspection schedule is for extensions having done one. What are they for lofts?

 

[^woody^]

I'd better warn some of the lads to phone in sick.

A BN would be OK as long as you know what you're doing. Most inspectors would hate to be building the thing for you or continually answering "can I do this?" type questions.

I don't agree that one inspector is more lenient than another for fire safety compliance these days.

Checks would typically be the bare structure and all structural supports, insulation, specific fire spread/ proofing, stairs/means of escape, final inspection. Some would be combined, and it could be as few as three inspections.

 

[pilsbury]

Are you a building inspector Woody? Imagine you landed my job…. That would wipe the smile off your face!

I don’t think I’d really be asking can I do this/that. I’ve kind of got the jist in my head and use the forum to do that.

The only reason a specific private inspector came up was with my fire door issue. All my nice big heavy original doors in the house come off either the hall or landing. Being old they aren’t the perfect fit and apparently all doors on the exit route are meant to be fire doors. I’d be gutted to have to replace the lot, not just for aesthetics, but for £2k out my pocket. I was told this inspector is sympathetic to interlinked smoke detection in rooms to avoid that. Council apparently are more down the line.

 

[cw018666]

Can’t see them being lenient in a post Grenfell world. You’re better off installing a sprinkler system and keeping the original doors as an acceptable workaround

 

[pilsbury]

Post Grenfell? I’m not going that high up. Can’t really see any comparison. Plus a sprinkler system will put insurance premiums up and do little for the safety of my family. Early detection and bailing out is key. Just hope the inspector sees it that way.

 

[cw018666]

You’re the expert

 

[pilsbury]

You’re the expert

Can I inspect my own building works?

 

[tony1851]

Post Grenfell? I’m not going that high up. Can’t really see any comparison. Plus a sprinkler system will put insurance premiums up and do little for the safety of my family. Early detection and bailing out is key. Just hope the inspector sees it that way.

If you are asleep in bed in the loft and a fire breaks out in the kitchen, smoke will prevent your 'bailing out' quicker than you think. As well as early warning, you need a viable escape route.

 

[Dodgyrog]

Hopefully you can find a solution that suits your ideals and the regs - but Fire Escape is the biggie.

I'll apologise upfront for the sinister tone of this post but it's for genuine good intentions.

Luckily fires never happen to the very large percentage of folk but we have a senior fire officer in the family and I was also looking at going up in to the loft of a large victorian house I once owned. He gets very emotive about the subject referring to "once you've pulled dead kid's bodies from upper floors of buildings...." and he uses this theme when working with Building Control authorities. Smoke, not fire, is the killer and he says go stand in any 2nd storey in a building / house, at night in the dark and then imagine trying to get out, room and stairs filled with choking smoke, disorientated, with a fire 2 floors below, then imagine trying to help other people, maybe immobile people, out. If you are lucky enough to have windows up there then look out of them and see if there is an easy way out....

Yes Grenfell was high up but once you get even to just a second storey it does now becomes a case of deciding if broken legs / broken back is the favourable alternative to choking / burning. Getting impaled on all kinds of things by jumping out windows in the dark is something no one ever thinks about, but it happens. No windows up there?.... well now those 4 walls around you start to close in when you think about it....... and having closing / sealing fire doors protecting the hallway and stairs from filling with smoke starts to become much more attractive.

If an inspector suggests to you a less optimum approach is ok then great..... but just look him in the eye and ask "but is it safe if kids are sleeping up there...... and I've nipped down the pub for a quick pint?". That may not be your specific circumstances but they have to bear in mind subsequent owners / tenants.

 

[pilsbury]

I appreciate the thoughts on fire safety…. I too am acutely aware of fire in my job , but fire doors on every room on the escape route are only any good if every door is shut of a night time. Very few people do this. Plus, fires most of the time occur in the kitchen and from people smoking and unattended candles. A fire isn’t going to break out in my lounge or spare room….

I understand the need for fire safety, a generic approach is required to stop daft developments going ahead….. but I’m after doing things properly and safely with a little bit of flexibility to maintain some aesthetics, keep costs down, whilst still being safe and reasonably sensible.

Don’t for a second think fire safety is not a concern of mine, or that I’m being flippant about it….. But I do understand your point.