Can you install a new consumer unit without upgrading all?

[sparkwright]

Hi, I have an old wylex fuse board and want to upgrade it to RCD for some extra protection now that children are staying with me. Unfortunately there will still be a couple of areas where my electrics will remain sub-regulations - gas and water bonding; and a socket in the kitchen being on wooden skirting.

Due to concrete floor and tiles, it will be difficult to get this done until next year when i am planning on a bigger overhaul of work.

so - would sparkys undertake this work or are they not allowed to without doing 'everything'?

cheers

You are concerned about replacing the board for the safety of the children.

By that token, you need to be concerned about the bonding too, for the safety of the children if you like.

You talk about all the work that's going to be done next year, so I can't see any reason why you can't put just some temporary bonding in.

Leave the cable long so it can be re-installed next year to your specification.

You can run the cable outside, or round the walls inside if next year it's all going to be 'overhauled'.

Other than the children staying, is there anything specific what makes you think you have full RCD protection now before your building work takes place?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We don't know (but would find it useful to know) if he has:

1) No main bonding whatsoever

2) Main bonding which is undersized or damaged

3) Main bonding which is not connected to the service pipes near enough to the point of entry to satisfy the electrician

4) Main bonding which is fine but no cat's cradle of supplementary bonding in the kitchen which the electrician thinks should be there because he was originally a plumber.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, I have an old wylex fuse board and want to upgrade it to RCD for some extra protection now that children are staying with me.

Whilst that is a very understandable, and reasonable, desire, you need to understand that, ironically, a standard 30mA RCD offers appreciably less protection (against fatal electric shock) to children than it provides for adults, increasingly so as the children get smaller. Sustained currents through the body of less than 30mA are unlikely to prove fatal in healthy adults - so a 30mA RCD affors them appreciable protection. However, currents appreciably less than 30mA can prove fatal in children, particularly small children.

That's certainly not a reason for not having RCDs, since they afford some protection to everyone (regardless of age/size), but one should be aware of the fact that children are generally ess protected than adults. As has been said, attending to any inadequate bonding is at least as important - probably more so for children since, unlike the situation with RCDs, having adequate bonding should afford roughly the same degree of protection to human beings of all ages.

Kind Regards, John

 

[diynoobie]

OK, I have some more information. There is bonding but it is not near the entry point for the gas pipe, just at the nearest point to the fuse board. There is no supplementary cross-bonding.

This importance of bonding over RCD has made me change my plans - I will get the bonding done first as priority and then decide on RCD.

Thanks all

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK, I have some more information. There is bonding but it is not near the entry point for the gas pipe, just at the nearest point to the fuse board.

The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

IMO "practicable " does not include taking a breaker to a concrete floor, but does include lifting floorboards and does include running the connection along the wall outside.

There is no supplementary cross-bonding.

Where is there none? Kitchen? Not needed there.

 

[JohnW2]

OK, I have some more information. There is bonding but it is not near the entry point for the gas pipe, just at the nearest point to the fuse board.

The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external.
IMO "practicable " does not include taking a breaker to a concrete floor, but does include lifting floorboards and does include running the connection along the wall outside.

I agree - and, in reality, it's almost a 'technicality'. Provided only that the pipe is metal all the way from where it enters the property to where it is bonded (and provided that pipe remains in place and intact), bonding a fair distance from the point of entry is, electrically, at least as good as at the point of entry - the pipe is undoubtedly at least as good (probably much better!) a conductor as any bonding conductor would be!

Kind Regards, John

 

[diynoobie]

Thanks guys - do you mind if i just ask - the water bonding is there but not at the stopcock (there is no stopcock inside but that is another issue). So the bonding is on the incoming water supply prior to to the pipe teeing to the kitchen and elsewhere.

Is this a problem? I was told it must go to a stopcock under the kitchen sink...which i don't have..

 

[plugwash]

The lack of stopcock is not a problem from an electrical perspective. Not great from a "what happens if a pipe bursts" perspective though.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the bonding is on the incoming water supply prior to to the pipe teeing to the kitchen and elsewhere.

That's where it should be.

I'm becoming less convinced that this "electrician" knows what he's on about.

I was told it must go to a stopcock under the kitchen sink...which i don't have..

I have one there, but I don't have my main bonding connected there.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Tell him that stopcocks are not mentioned in the regulations.

 

[deadshort]

In relation to electrics you're only regulatory requirement is to stop- a - cock from wiring your property

DS

 

[diynoobie]

On supplementary bonding, he implied i had many copper pipes for water, and radiator etc, and that it would be much safer and better that they be cross bonded under floorboards of hallway, kitchen and at boiler. £50 quid for each.

I have another spark coming monday. Better to get a second in person opinion - thanks for helping me to understand what I don't know.

 

[EFLImpudence]

On supplementary bonding,

It is only required for bathrooms and the like; not kitchens.
I say for bathrooms etc. because it does not have to be done in the bathroom, i.e. can be done in adjacent airing cupboard, for example.

As you are having a new CU which will have RCDs protecting all the circuits then this Supplementary Bonding may, with certain conditions, be omitted altogether.

he implied i had many copper pipes for water, and radiator etc, and that it would be much safer and better that they be cross bonded under floorboards of hallway, kitchen and at boiler

Rubbish.

£50 quid for each.

I have another spark coming monday.

Sounds wise.

Better to get a second in person opinion

Or a first who knows what he's doing.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm becoming less convinced that this "electrician" knows what he's on about.

Unless, of course (and it's not beyond belief) what he is on about is attempting to bamboozle the client into paying (handsomely) for work which is not needed.