Central Heating Nightmare - Please help me!

[JeffSouthgate]

I feel that he is short cutting by putting the pipes in strange places such as at the top of the stairs where there is a step up either side he is putting the pipes across the gap, against the wall but then bending round about a foot and into the wooden step.

It sounds as if your staircase rises to a small landing, from which two shorter flights ascend: one to the front of the house and one to the back addition.

Your description suggests that the plumber has run pipes up from the ground floor under the main staircase to this landing, and then he is trying to run them under the floor of the front and back addition at first floor level. The key issue is whether this is unacceptable in appearance and whether a better layout is possible within the constraints of your building. It is perfectly reasonable for you to be interested in that.

I don't like that the plumber makes you feel awkward when you try to discuss the work. That is an obvious psychological ploy to shut the customer up and pressure her accept poor work. On the other hand, he might just be unskilful at communication and customer care -- though, as you say, he seemed okay at this at the start. A professional would listen to the customer's concerns politely, and try to explain what is or is not technically possible, and why. If he knows what he is doing, that won't be hard for him.

Have you phoned your partner to discuss what is happening?

 

[humbug]

Hi Jeff, I have spoken to my boyfriend yes, but he doesnt know what to do because he cant come home, he ssaid he would phone them, but them they will be here and I dont want him to say anythign to them because I think they will be annoyed. There are three people, the two 'employees' are lovely, really nice and friendly, they are quite and polite, their boss however is really loud, singing and shouting a lot!
Dont knwo if you saw the photos, the weird pipes over the grey carpet are the upstairs ones, under that floor is a corridor. Think traditionl victorian terrace- and then where the understairs cupboard normally is it is our stairs, and where the stairs normally go up is a cupboard- freaky!
I am just worried that ii am maybe being silly, i dont think i am but you never know! i also am scared to tell them that i am unhappy because when i have tried before i have been unable to get very far!
He also said i lived in a 'god-forsaken s***hole of a town' which was a little bit mean- its not that bad!
Do the photos look like nnormal work? i dont have any idea at all because i havent seen that many central heating installations, and to tell the truth i have only this week become interested in them!

 

[chrishutt]

Well, you've learned a few tricks today! I must have a go posting photos myself one day...

As for the photos, I think the pipes crossing the landing are really ugly and I would not install like that unless there really wasn't any reasonable alternative and I had discussed and agreed it with the customer.

The other details I wouldn't like to comment on without knowing what the alternatives were, but in the case of the 3 pipes in the corner of your lounge (?) I would definitely only do that with the customer's agreement.

Now it may be that my standards are higher than the average (at least I hope they are) so it would be good to get comments from some others as well.

 

[humbug]

Hey Chris, the three pipes, that are about a foot tall, go through double brick into the kitchen cupboard and straight along the back, passed the cooker point through to the boiler. I had asked for the pipes to go through to wall a bit closer into the room (where it is an old doorway boarded up) all at the same level and in a row along the left hand wall, not the back wall. I wouldnt care what it looked like in the cupboard, i never sit in there!!! But he told me this was easier than doing joins in the cupboard, and i can imagine it would be akward, but i hate this thing in the corner, it makes placing furniture there difficult too, and they are only small rooms, this is a big feature to a little room!

 

[chrishutt]

That may all be true, but I'm not in a position to comment further without knowing in detail what the alternatives were. I do a lot of work in Victorian terraces and I wouldn't expect to have to run pipes like that. But then I'm a bit of a perfectionist, which shows in my bills!

Better quality work takes longer and costs more, so it comes back to what kind of "contract" you entered into with him. Was anything put in writing about quality of work? Presumably you haven't paid for the work yet, so that gives you a lot of leverage!

You need to be very clear and consistent about what you want, make it clear that you're not prepared to accept (pay for) the pipework that you find objectionable and, above all, don't be bullied by him. As I said, get a friend to give moral support.

 

[JeffSouthgate]

Your photographs are very helpful, although we can only guess what is under the floors. The plumber has laid his pipes towards the centre of the corridors on either side of the depressed landing. The problem is that he has brought the pipes out through the steps before turning them toward the wall. This leaves unsightly visible runs of pipe bending back to the wall which, moreover, are vulnerable to kicking, hoovering, etc. However, it does seem possible for the pipes to run straight along the wall between those steps. The "turns" in the pipes can be made BEHIND the steps, under the two raised floors, if your plumber uses 90 degree joints instead of bending the pipes out in the landing area. If he says it can't be done, ask him to show you why not.

 

[PaulAH]

If it's any consolation, Humbug, these will look a lot better when they are camouflaged by paint the same colour as the background. Not wishing to stick up for this awkward bloke, if you're lumbered with what he's done it will be greatly improved by decoration.

You could also get him to do an invisible mend on the chipped skirting.

Paul

 

[humbug]

Hello both of you!
Thank you for your help- it really has made me feel better about this.
as Jeff says, the pipes could get kicked, and i said that to the mand, but he said there was a brick in the way (?) the picture with the shiny floor and the wiggley pipe is the step down into the 3rd bedroom where they wanted to run the pipes along the top of the skirting board, which i felt would surely get stood on and so i insisted (and my heart was thumoing!) that the pipes must go under the floor, and this is why we have the left turn and drop down of the top pipe.
i have a quote, but it doesnt say how nice the job will be, he did my brothers and it was great, and i thought i woudl get 'great' too!
i dont really have anyone i could ask to come round, i dont knwo anyone around here and the only person is my mum who is 30 mins away and cant drive- not much use!
I think that I will talk to him tomorrow when he comes in and explain what i am not happy about and that i will need to talk to my boyfriend and for him to see the work. I have tried so hard to be accomodating, i make them tea and they make themselves at home in my dining room at lunch time and i end up standing in the kitchen!
They have been here three days and are coming back tomorrow to carry on, my brothers took two days and wa nice, so I assume 4 days is quite a long time? I dont know.
I am REALLY very grateful for your advice and you have made me feel much more at ease and confident about my queries and their validity. THANK YOU. I will come back tomorrow and let you knwo how I get on (unless they hospitalise me!)
THANK YOU

 

[JeffSouthgate]

But he told me this was easier than doing joins in the cupboard, and i can imagine it would be akward,

...well that says it all. He is not denying that it can be done more neatly, just that it's easier for him to leave you with ugly work. The same is true of the pipes emerging on your depressed landing.

In a dwelling house the appearance of the work is just as important as its other features. You'll have to look at those pipes long after he has pocketed your money and disappeared. So, politely but firmly, ask for the pipes to be rerouted more neatly. It does not look very hard from your photos. Although quality can vary with cost, the appearance and vulnerability of the pipes on the landing is unreasonably poor at any price. Even an inexpensive job must be of reasonable quality.

Has he asked for any money yet? Just how cheap or expensive is he?

 

[humbug]

Thanks Paul- I know you are right, it is just disappointing, we jsut had the walls plastered and the damaged skirting is actually new stuff we had cut to match the rest! Such is life! And it is all so expensive, it has taken us a year to be able to afford to do these things and so every little step seems so exciting, and then SO worrying too! But I suppose, ultimately i want to be warm! We moved here last Dec and havent had any heating at all... yet!

 

[humbug]

Hi Jeff, No he hasnt asked for his money yet, he quoted £2375 for 8 rads and a boiler and installation, but we only needed 7 rads and a cooker point so that is what he is doing. It is hard because my boyfriend spoke to him about it before, and now i am having to, but I am not sure what has been said. I know that is cheap, and I know you get what you pay for, its just that I have seen his work before and it was good. I will have to wait for my boyfriend to come back tomorrow night or saturday and get him to look before we pay. It is just so hard when there isnt anyone to ask for help so i hope you know that i am very grateful to you and everyone who has been so nice- its so lovely and i feel so much more positive.

 

[JeffSouthgate]

but he said there was a brick in the way

... then lift the floorboard and see if that is true. Or get one of his friendly employees to do it so that you can see.

If he did a good job for your brother, can your brother come round and give you some moral support?

 

[humbug]

My brother lives about 2 hours away so he cant really help. I dont have any other family apart from my mum, and she cant drive, so it would mean leaving them alone if i went to get her which coudl take an hour and i am worried to do that, and she is only little so i think they might ignore her! I am a bit stuck for people really!
I will go and look for that brick! And then I guess I will go to bed because I need to be alert in the mornign when they arrive!
I will be back tomorrow and let you know what happens.
Thank you... again!

 

[humbug]

Hello! I have been trying to get on the computer to let you know what happened with the plumber on Friday.
They came and 'finished' the job, I was really daring (for me!) and spoke to the man and told him what i wasnt happy about and he just laughed again! He said he had been doing it for 27 years and that he was happy with the work he had done, and that was that. So he asked me for the money and I said he would have to see my boyfriend about the money because he would want to see the work first. The man got a bit funny and said you will have to pay for it (he wanted cash!) I told him that I knew the work had to be paid for but that i was not in the position to pay him on the spot and that my boyfriend would send him a cheque. Although I pointed out lots of things that they had damaged, broken or made a mess off he didnt seem to care. I was very upset when he left!
When my boyfriend came home he was really annoyed about the job the plumber had done. My boyfriend does pipework and things in his job for pumping chemicals and gases and things(?!) and so although he is not a plumber he has a better idea than me of what is acceptable and possible- and he wasn't happy.
So, we both would like to say a huge THANK YOU to you guys who advised me and made me feel that I could stand up to the plumber (although he did ignore me!) and I am really, really grateful for your kindness- it made such a huge difference to how i felt about everything, made me much more positive and happy- THANK YOU.
The question now is what do we do?!
We arent happy with the work and I really dont want the man to come back to our house because he makes me feel very uncomfortable, but we have things that are problems such as the timer on the boiler doesnt work, he said he was fitting a cooker point and it is just a capped-off pipe, he said he would leave plumbing in the bathroom for a towl-rail radiator, and he has left the pipes from the boiler, but not where he said he would. He broke the stop-cock (I know this is an accident and can happen to anyone, often!) and the bathroom carpet is soaked through- when i said about it he said, 'Dont worry about it, I am not worried about it." But he didnt do anythign, he left it and now the carpet is ruined. There are lots of other things damaged, split floor boards (we have exposed wooden floor) and broken skirting board, things that he didnt even bother to mention. There is black grease(?) all up the side of our sofa, the wooden floor which we had stripped, sanded, stained and varnished and was glossy and lovley has been scratched and scrapped with tools and needs to be re-done, and I could go on but I would really really bore you then!
I couldnt wait to have a warm and cosy home and now I am really disappointed. It is warm, and it is our home, but there are so many things to tidy up or fix now!
I am not sure what to do about it? I am guessing that you chaps dont have unhappy customers, or if you did you would listen to them and be understanding- not laugh and leave! So I dont know, do i have to or should I pay him the full amount? Am I within my rights to with-hold some payment and explain to him that we have to have these things rectified? Can I write him a letter with a list of the things that I am unhappy about ? (I really dont want to speak to him, and he doesnt listen to me anywhay!) Am I being silly?! Do you have any advice or suggestions that might help me? This is the first time I have ever had to deal with anything like this and it is very daunting and confusing.
I really should stop writing now! I am sorry for the length of this post- I don go on a bit!
Oh, and ... THANK YOU again for being so great last week!

 

[PaulAH]

Hi Humbug.

Those in the trade will be able to give you practical advice on how to resolve it, but one thing I would suggest is to take full advantage of all the developments on this forum. Assuming he has internet access, tell him to check out this link:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35618

It will take him straight to this subject. There is always the possibility he will swallow hard when he sees your true feelings and the reaction of other professionals. You are not giving away any secrets - this is a public forum which he could even have stumbled upon himself.

Paul