CH Busted Pump ?

[Softus]

I am prepared for some leakage from the isolator valves, but I am hoping that it will be just a dribble at most (why would people fit them if they leak more than that?)

Fitting them isn't really a matter of choice, however, there are two different types, and for each type there are good quality and poor quality ones.

There are also two ways in which the valves can leak. They can leak from the gland or they can fail to shut - the latter will cause you a problem, depending on the extent to which it passes water.

In the best scenario, you have good quality gate valves that work. And if they do leak past the gland, you can tighten and/or pack it.

In the worst scenario, you have spherical valves that have seized, and that seize when you try to turn them and p*ss water from the glands.

Anyone who prefers certainty of getting the job done takes new valves to a job, fits them after draining the system, and walks away knowing that there cannot be any leak. Since you live in the house, you may prefer the routine of peeking into the airing cupboard every day to check for leaks. That choice is your prerogative.

So hopefully I can whip out the old pump and bang in the new one with only a small amount of mess ... at least that's the theory, I shall have several big buckets ready anyway .

If you like the sense of adventure provided by not knowing until you remove the pump whether or not your valves are working, then go ahead with the amateurish plan of buying pump pliers (which are inappropriate for removing valves anyway), and snatching the pump in/out while holding a tray/bowl/bucket an impossible position in a dark cupboard, and trying to stop water from running over any nearby electrics and motorised valves.

 

[Gamekeeper]

Fitting them isn't really a matter of choice, however, there are two different types, and for each type there are good quality and poor quality ones.

There are also two ways in which the valves can leak. They can leak from the gland or they can fail to shut - the latter will cause you a problem, depending on the extent to which it passes water.

In the best scenario, you have good quality gate valves that work. And if they do leak past the gland, you can tighten and/or pack it.

In the worst scenario, you have spherical valves that have seized, and that seize when you try to turn them and p*ss water from the glands.

They haven't seized - I can open and shut both of them - and the glands don't leak.

Anyone who prefers certainty of getting the job done takes new valves to a job, fits them after draining the system, and walks away knowing that there cannot be any leak.

Which recalls the other poster's point: If you should always drain the system before replacing a pump, what is the point of having isolator valves at all? Why not just connect the pump direct to the pipes?

Since you live in the house, you may prefer the routine of peeking into the airing cupboard every day to check for leaks. That choice is your prerogative.

I'm grateful for the helpful tip. There's no need to be *quite* so patronising, though - you're only a plumber you know

So hopefully I can whip out the old pump and bang in the new one with only a small amount of mess ... at least that's the theory, I shall have several big buckets ready anyway .

If you like the sense of adventure provided by not knowing until you remove the pump whether or not your valves are working, then go ahead with the amateurish plan of buying pump pliers (which are inappropriate for removing valves anyway), and snatching the pump in/out while holding a tray/bowl/bucket an impossible position in a dark cupboard, and trying to stop water from running over any nearby electrics and motorised valves.[/quote]

Of course that's always the danger with any kind of DIY plumbing. You simply hope that by doing it carefully you will be able to retrieve the situation, perhaps just by hurriedly sticking the old pump back on. I expect *real* plumbers have to do that sometimes too.

 

[Gamekeeper]

Fitting them isn't really a matter of choice, however, there are two different types, and for each type there are good quality and poor quality ones.

There are also two ways in which the valves can leak. They can leak from the gland or they can fail to shut - the latter will cause you a problem, depending on the extent to which it passes water.

In the best scenario, you have good quality gate valves that work. And if they do leak past the gland, you can tighten and/or pack it.

In the worst scenario, you have spherical valves that have seized, and that seize when you try to turn them and p*ss water from the glands.

They haven't seized - I can open and shut both of them - and the glands don't leak.

Anyone who prefers certainty of getting the job done takes new valves to a job, fits them after draining the system, and walks away knowing that there cannot be any leak.

Which recalls the other poster's point: If you should always drain the system before replacing a pump, what is the point of having isolator valves at all? Why not just connect the pump direct to the pipes?

Since you live in the house, you may prefer the routine of peeking into the airing cupboard every day to check for leaks. That choice is your prerogative.

I'm grateful for the helpful tip. There's no need to be *quite* so patronising, though - you're only a plumber you know

So hopefully I can whip out the old pump and bang in the new one with only a small amount of mess ... at least that's the theory, I shall have several big buckets ready anyway .

If you like the sense of adventure provided by not knowing until you remove the pump whether or not your valves are working, then go ahead with the amateurish plan of buying pump pliers (which are inappropriate for removing valves anyway), and snatching the pump in/out while holding a tray/bowl/bucket an impossible position in a dark cupboard, and trying to stop water from running over any nearby electrics and motorised valves.[/quote]

Of course that's always the danger with any kind of DIY plumbing. You simply hope that by doing it carefully you will be able to retrieve the situation, perhaps just by hurriedly sticking the old pump back on. I expect *real* plumbers have to do that sometimes too.

 

[kevplumb]

drain the freakin system change the pump refill then post back when you cant get it to work

ignore dick puller A screwfux reject

 

[Softus]

They haven't seized - I can open and shut both of them - and the glands don't leak.

I didn't say that they are seized or leaking - I said that that was the worst scenario.

If you should always drain the system before replacing a pump, what is the point of having isolator valves at all? Why not just connect the pump direct to the pipes?

New valves are useful in the early part of their life, so if a pump fails prematurely then it can be changed easily. After 20 years, which is not an uncommon length of time for a pump to last, the valves aren't really valves anymore.

Since you live in the house, you may prefer the routine of peeking into the airing cupboard every day to check for leaks. That choice is your prerogative.

I'm grateful for the helpful tip. There's no need to be *quite* so patronising, though - you're only a plumber you know

As it happens, I'm not a plumber, but you're clearly only an amateur at word games.

You simply hope that by doing it carefully you will be able to retrieve the situation, perhaps just by hurriedly sticking the old pump back on. I expect *real* plumbers have to do that sometimes too.

I don't know why you would expect something of which you have no knowledge, or why you think hope and speculation deserve any place in a discussion of heating systems.

 

[nickso]

jesus you lot like to make things difficult.

if its ballvalves on the pump and they are not leaking then just bung the system and change the pump without touching them or change them if you so desire. if its gate valves then close them, if they are passing badly then bung the system and change the pump and the valves if you so desire. if they are passing a little bit then just change the pump.

 

[Softus]

Bunging is not a good thing to recommend to a novice.

Draining provides not only plenty of time to do the work, with no risk, but also gives the opportunity to analyse the water quality and do any preventative maintenance that's necessary.

Sandpits are available for those who are scared of bad news.

 

[nickso]

fair enough for a complete idiot or someone wanting to do more to the system than just change the pump.

if you just want to change the pump, putting one or two bungs in and waiting for the water to stop dripping out of the loosened pump fittings is hardly rocket science.

i take your point that some idiots on here could even **** this up though.

 

[Softus]

Why would you ever put two bungs in?

 

[kevplumb]

one in the feed one in the vent

 

[mickyg]

for a DIYer who won't own bungs and buying them would be a false economy I recommend a large piece of bluetac

 

[Softus]

...putting one or two bungs in...

Why would you ever put two bungs in?

one in the feed one in the vent

OK. So why would you ever put one bung in?

 

[swbjackson]

combined feed and vent.

 

[Softus]

combined feed and vent.

Do you actually know what a combined feed and vent is?!

 

[swbjackson]

There are two options for a combined feed and vent. One is to tee off a vent over the F&E tank the other used for low head or extensive systems just has a single 22mm feed from the F&E tank. They can only be used if the boiler manufacturer permits it. The second option is sometimes called a wet vent by some installers.