Changing ball and o-ring on mid port valve

[nelectric]

Y plan system incorporating 28mm V4073A is heating up radiators when CH is off. Have tested actuator and even tried replacing it - same problem. So suspect ball not closing off CH port properly. Honeywell state there is a spare part ball and o-ring part number 272752A/U CARD but I cannot find anyone advertising it for sale and do not see how the ball can be replaced anyway. I do have a spare 22mm V4073A which I can cannibalise. Can I use the same valve top including the plate, spindle, ball and o-ring on the 28mm valve?

When changing this I need to part drain the system. Can I do it in the following manner?
1. switch off power to system at fused spur
2. move lever on actuator to manual position (both ports open)
3. Turn off mains water
4. Run hot tap in kitchen (not sure how long for)
5. change valve parts

How can I tell when enough water is drained out i.e. when the mid port valve is drained?

Is there anything I should watch out for when refilling the system?

 

[Agile]

Sometimes they fail to seal because the ball is not rotating on the shaft and always presents the same surface for mating.

The ball can usually be freed, lubricated with silicone and made to work again.

For the cost of a new valve I wonder why you dont just replace it.

Tony

 

[nelectric]

...
For the cost of a new valve I wonder why you dont just replace it.
...

Because a new valve costs best part of £100 and I don't like undoing plumbing connections unless really necessary - I am an electrician, not a plumber. So will the plate and ball from the 22mm valve fit in the 28mm valve?

 

[tamz]

The valve costs around £70 and as far as don't like undoing plumbing connections go, how do you expect to strip the valve without removing it? Stop being a tight rse and swap it

 

[homes]

Are you jewish by any chance?

 

[namsag]

Turning cold mains off and opening hot tap will achieve absolutely zilch. Other than a flood when you un do the valve.
Change the whole valve and not being funny but get someone in as you are missing the basics of how CH works

 

[mointainwalker]

The posts criticising the OP for not wanting to replace a ( repairable ?) component for pnds 70 -100 and calling him tight are really rather risible when you look at the number of posts from plumbers complaining about rip-off prices at merchants and how a fitting costs one pound more at "a" compared to "b".

homes , are you a t**t by any chance ?

Anyone smell a whiff of hypocrisy in the air ?

 

[ollski]

bung kit, replacement 4073 kit and you can knock that job on the head in 15 mins. fwiw the body is just a lump of brass can't exactly fail so why break three joints when you only need to replace one?

 

[nelectric]

...how do you expect to strip the valve without removing it? ...

Are you familiar with Honeywell valves? They are designed to be stripped in situ.

...Stop being a tight rse ...

Are you jewish by any chance?

comments like these are uncalled for. For the record, my income thus far this tax year is £1500 and I have a wife and four kids.

... you are missing the basics of how CH works

Thankyou for politely pointing this out.
I do understand how this system works and am kicking myself for making such a fundamental mistake.
I can only say in mitigation, it had been a long day and it was late when I posted that.

The posts criticising the OP for not wanting to replace a ( repairable ?) component for pnds 70 -100 and calling him tight are really rather risible...

Thankyou. I abhor this modern culture of replace rather than repair.

Sometimes they fail to seal because the ball is not rotating on the shaft and always presents the same surface for mating. The ball can usually be freed, lubricated with silicone and made to work again.

Thankyou for the constructive advice

... why break three joints when you only need to replace one?

Again, thankyou

As previously stated, I do have in my possession a new V4073A 22mm valve. Can I use the plate/spindle/ball subassembly from the new 22mm valve on the currently installed 28mm valve?

 

[grib]

I havn't replaced a whole valve in 15 years all you need to do is fit the convertion kit ( I think they called it that as the original valves where different and heads couldn't be changed seperately). I'm a firm believer in repairing things not filling landfill with unnecesary waste.... and it's cheaper for the customer too.

If it's an open vent system you can get away without draining down by plugging the vent and cold feed then drain off a small amount to create a vacuum. This is how I usually do them and is much quicker than draining down. That said you probably won't have the required plugs and often the valve is upstairs so only need to drain partially anyway

To drain down turn off cold feed to heating system or tie up ballcock in small tank in loft (still assuming open vent). Fit hose to a drain tap and open untill water below level of valve. remember to add inhibitor when refilling.

Changing ball kit is piece of cake... when empty ... take off actuator held on with two screws (open the valve to manual postion before removing or refittine)... undo four bolts holding down plate and lift off.

All that said maybe if you think you can empty the system via the hot tap you may be sufficiently clueless about heating systems (not everything obviously) to benefit from getting in a local engineer. Like most things in life it's really easy if you know what you're doing and could save you a lot of hassle in the long run... just make sure he (or she) only changes the ball and plate not the whole valve.

 

[grib]

And I believe that the kit for 22mm and 28mm is the same, although it's a long time since I did a 28 as there are far more 22s about... but I'm 95% sure it's the same kit ....

 

[nelectric]

Just phoned Honeywell technical support on 08457 678999 and they confirmed the valve internals are the same so I can go ahead and fit the valve top from the 22mm into the 28mm.

Next stop is to part drain the system and do the replacement. Valve is upstairs about 2ft off the floor. Advice would be appreciated on how much water (in terms of bucketfulls) will need to be drained before I can safely open it up. Or is there a plumbers tip/trick to discover when sufficient has been drained?

 

[Mr Smyth]

As Ollski suggested get a bung kit.

Basically 2 bungs. Place one in the feed from the F&E tank (the smaller tank that feeds your CH/HW system) and the other over the vent pipe that comes over the top of this tank. This will create a vacuum in the pipework and should hold most of the water in the pipes.

You state that the valve is upstairs so the only water that needs to be drained is the water above the valve (probs less than half a bucket)

Place a bucket (I use a rubble bag most of the time) under the valve and loosen one of the nuts on the valve and catch the water. If this gets out of hand tighten the nut. Continue till its drained. Once the water stops remove the guts of the valve and replace.

Good idea to clean out the inside of the valve with wire wool or similar to make sure the new inners close off correctly etc.

Remove the bungs and let the system refill. Vent the system/pump of any air left in it.

Work safe with the electrics etc.

Can't quite believe some of the replies you have had???? Some people will change a perfectly serviceable Honeywell with a cheap Drayton or similar then charge £200+ for the job.

Hope this helps

 

[Agile]

For a customer I would normally replace the whole valve.

I might repair it if that saved the need for a second visit.

Most of the cost is the time taken to drain and refill and bleed. When thats done the extra £50 for a new valve is well worthwhile for my peace of mind.

But I can replace or even repair parts if I want to or need to.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

Honeywell state there is a spare part ball and o-ring part number 272752A/U CARD but I cannot find anyone advertising it for sale

It is available under the part no 272742A from many online sources for about £5-£7.

do not see how the ball can be replaced anyway.

Does your actuator have a small bump on the top? If so you can replace the ball and O ring by removing the actuator and using the above kit. If you do not have this bump, you will have to use the 40003918-007 kit to replace the ball; it costs about £10-£15.

Both kits should be available from any decent plumbers' merchant.