confused over insulating solid walls.

[tworivers]

Can anybody help with my situation?

I want to insulate my solid walls, i think i have read to many articles on this and have left myself confused and frustrated.

After reading about the different ways of insulating the walls, i have decided to use thermalite basic board @ 40mm thick which will give me a thermal value of 0.80 and a energy rating of A2 according to their site.

i have read on various sites that to get an even better thermal value i should battern the wall and then place the thermaboard on the batons placed at 600 apart.

This site says:
Internal thermal boards can be fitted to the inside surface of the wall. It is particularly beneficial to line cold outside walls, especially those facing north or east. Use foil-backed plasterboard nailed to battens.
Firstly fix battens on the wall and then fix the thermal boards to the battens. This will leave a gap behind the board, which will trap a layer of still, dry air - similar to double glazing your wall.

My questions are:
1) its says use foil- backed plasterboard. And then its says fix thermal boards to batons, the thermal boards don't have a foil on the back of them. So could somebody explain this more clearly. sorry if i am being thick here.
2) It says on other sites, that i should baton, then fill with rockwool, then put of pvc protection over that and lastly fix the thermal boards, because this will stop any damp.
3) What extra thermal protection will i gain over if i use batons and thermals board as appose to just fixing thermal boards straight to the wall?
4) is it possible to fix the thermal board straight to the wall with nothing behind it only the adesieve?
5) Could somebody please give me the correct way of installing the thermal boards with the batons.
i.e Can i batons the wall & then secure the thermal boards straight to them without any pvc or rock wool etc.

Sorry for all the question but in i am really confused and need to get on with the work as my wife is expecting and i need to get all the work done before the new arrival.

Merry xmas

 

[noseall]

fix a 4"x1" batten horizontally to the top and bottom of the wall, i.e. at skirting height and at the wall-ceiling abutment. then fill in at 400mm c/c with 2"x1" tanalised battens.

the top and bottom 4"x1" rails will provide a sturdy base and head and will also be a fixing point for the vertical battens.

the vertical battens can be fixed quickly using 70mm threaded concrete screws as there is no need to use plugs. all you need to do is drill 6mm holes.

then use 62.5mm kingspan K18 kooltherm insulated plasterboards. these come complete with a foil barrier bonded to the back. these can be screwed to the battens with 90mm drywall screws.

 

[tworivers]

thank you for your input

i would be struggling with the 62mm boards plus the 25 .
i take it i would be able to use a thinner board and just not have as much thermal protection.?

could i use therma board instead of kingspan?

 

[tworivers]

sorry i meant thermaline basic by gyproc 30mm

 

[^woody^]

I would not bother with any board that uses polystyrene. It may be cheap (?) but its nowhere near as good as insulation such as Celotex/Kingspan/Xtratherm - which will also function as a vapour check by way of the silver face - so you can use normal plasterboards

30mm of one of these boards will be equal to about 60mm of polystyrene

For any type of board, the fitting is the same. But if space is an issue, the existing walls don't experience any penetrating damp, and are reasonably vertical and flat (with or without plaster) then you could use something like foam board adhesive or one of the no nails adhesives, and stick the insulation board straight onto the wall, then bond the plasterboard to the insulation, and then fix say 5 or 6 screws through to the wall for a bit of extra support.

This wont go anywhere, and will do away with any air gap or timber laths

If you are battening out, and are using the Gyproc boards, then I would fill any void between the laths with a quilt such as fibreglass or rockwool

But regarding any of the thermal plasterboards (ie plasterboard with insulation bonded to the back), then if the existing wall is sound and does not get damp, then it is possible to stick them straight on to the wall with a suitable adhesive, and they will stay up. It's not normally "the done thing" but it is done and it works.

Then your next consideration is pink or blue

 

[tworivers]

thankyou for your reply woody.

I am going to go with the 30 or 40mm Gyproc boards

You say these can be bonded straight to the wall.

If i baton and then board what are the extra benifits. I can afford ( space wise) to baton some walls gable end etc.

If i baton the wall. Can the baton go straight on the wall ( no DP Materila).
If the baton can go straight on the wall can i then put the gyproc straight on the batons.

i.e Wall , Baton, gyproc, plaster.

I don't have any damp on any of the walls, but i am worried about creating moisture if i don't do it correctly.

Thanks again everyone

 

[^woody^]

If the walls are not damp at the moment, then you don't need a vertical DPM.

If you are are having any air voids, then you need a vapour check. If not then you don't.

The benefit of battens? Well thats how its normally done, I just suggested an alternative

 

[tworivers]

thanks again woody. i really appreciate your time to ans my questions.

i will use some of your suggestions on the walls where i can't afford much space as they sound the perfect solution.

when i asked in my previous post about the benefits of batons, i was wonder if using batons and creating an air gap meant you got extra thermal protection. sorry if i didn't explain properly.

one last thing, is a vapour check the same as a dpm.

sorry if i am being thick.

thanks again for your time.

 

[^woody^]

Battens will create an air gap which will have an insulation value - but not as much as if you fill the air gap with some insulation.

There is nothing wrong with an air gap, but just IMO, an air gap can allow some [interstitial] condensation to form within the wall, so I try to avoid them.

A vapour check/membrane and a DPM perform different functions - a vapour check stops moisture being absorbed in to the wall from the room, and a DPM stops moisture coming into the room from the [external] wall.

Polythene can perform both functions

 

[tworivers]

cheers again Woody.

You will be glad to here i have order my materials today.

I have managed to source a Knuaf board with vapour check included.

So Gables will be insulated as follows:

batons, fill air gap with rockwool. then 40mm board with vapour check.

other walls: as above but with 22mm boards.

Thanks for your patience woody. ( I hope my bloody house is a lot warmer after all this).

Merry Christmas

 

[dan83590]

I realise this is an older thread, but I was posting on the off chance the OP see it again.

I am wondering if this worked well or not as I am planning to insulate our external walls with a similar method?

 

[legs-akimbo]

What type of wall do you have Dan ?
Some of Wooden Heads offerings were laughable above, though in fairness not all ....for once.
One thing not touched upon above is that the OP had SOLID walls and internal drylining can cause interstitial condensation whereby bmould growths occur and theese are extremely unhealthy, mostly a problem with 325mm hollow block but also in cast concretre and rubble stone.
Some say even with cavity but most of the scaremongering is propogated by eccentrics who know only how to read a book /website but have no practical experience....like woody with his .......sticking insulation to your wall with no more nails, then bonding on a plasterboard with a few screws stuck here and there, that one is an absolute peach !!! where do you dream them up wooden top ?

 

[alittlerespect]

Hi

The old 'kis' principle comes into play - 'keep it simple' and is worth bearing in mind in your situation!

The easiest solution to your problem would be to use a PIR insulated plasterboard 'Gyproc Thermaline Super' comes to mind, but there are others. You can stick this board directly to the bare plaster (as simple as it sounds - place dabs of an approved adhesive on the backs of the board (some people use multiplaster as the adhesive), gently press to the wall and when you have got 2 boards in place get a nice straight piece of timber (3x2 should do) and tamp the boards so that you get a flat and relatively plumb surface then follow in a similar manner with the remaining boards, then either tape and joint or plaster skim to finish before decorating.

You do not need to worry yourself over all the other questions that you have raised - there are solutions for all different kinds of situations and the above will fulfill your requirement to the full.

As a note a 50mm thickness gyproc thermaline board returns a U value of 0.28 W/m2K.

Regards

 

[alittlerespect]

Apologies

Made an error in the U value - it should have been 0.56W/m2K

seemed a bit generous and checked figures!!

The technical detail still stays as previous thread.

Regards

 

[dan83590]

The Walls here are stone, maybe 13 inches thick. We are in a top floor flat so work on the outside would be very difficult. The out side Walls (2 in this room) are very cold to touch. Wallpaper will not stay up for more than a couple of years! I was thinking damp proof membrane, then 2x2 batons, in fill with ridgid insulation, then board and plaster. What do you think?