confused with a rewire please help

[nigelwalker]

need to rewire my downstairs ring main, bit confused at the new rules and regs some help would be much appreciated on the following points.

1 when refitting sockets and backboxes do they have to be at the new hight of 450mm or can they stay at existing height?

2 when routing new t&e do the joists have to be drilled/notched or can i just use cable clip them to the joists?

3 i also belive you can no longer plaster over cables you have to put them inside trunking. is this correct?

4 also looking at changing cu for a split load type to be able to run fridge/freezer on seperate circuit this will be a radial circuit will 2.5mm t&e be sufficiant ?

any help would be most helpful, thanks

 

[DESL]

I'll be the first to say it

If you don't know the answers to these basic questions then perhaps you should not do it yourself.

 

[stevie22b]

Well that helped the guy a lot.

I think some members of this forum have lost sight of what this site is all about - suggest some people click on the 'Home Page' link for this site and read it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And I think you should carefully read the original post, particularly Q4, and ask yourself if you truly think that he has anywhere near enough understanding to be installing new circuits and CUs, and if he should be advised to do work like that on the basis of knowledge that he gets by only asking the questions that happen to occur to him.

DESL is quite right - these are very basic questions (and phrased in a way which indicate that not only does Nigel not have a lot of other basic knowledge, he doesn't realise that he doesn't have it.)

There's no reason to suspect that he could not acquire all the knowledge he needs, but right now he seems so far away from that point that him asking a few unstructured questions is not going to work.

 

[Softus]

1 when refitting sockets and backboxes do they have to be at the new hight of 450mm or can they stay at existing height?

You don't have to move any existing socket outlets.

2 when routing new t&e do the joists have to be drilled/notched or can i just use cable clip them to the joists?

If you mean when crossing the joists, then you have to ensure that they're either deep enough into the joist or mechanically protected by other means, e.g. a steel plate.

3 i also belive you can no longer plaster over cables you have to put them inside trunking. is this correct?

Plastering is not wrong per se, but new cable runs have to be at a safe depth, or (again) mechanically protected.

4 also looking at changing cu for a split load type to be able to run fridge/freezer on seperate circuit this will be a radial circuit will 2.5mm t&e be sufficiant?

Only probably, but you need to put a bit more thought into circuit design that you're doing. Also, changing a CU is not a sensible job for a novice. Also, you don't need to have a split load board just to have a separate circuit for the f/f.

Please be aware that most of the work you're describing is notifiable under the provisions of the Building Regulations. If you DIY and don't notify, then you're breaking the law AND may make the sale of your house more difficult/protracted.

 

[dingbat]

Please be aware that most of the work you're describing is notifiable under the provisions of the Building Regulations...

And your LABC may have views which override the provisions of the Wiring Regulations, such as when the Part M heights of sockets-outlets applies and exactly when the 17th Edition becomes the de-facto standard. (I would not be at all suprised if some LABCs adopt it immediately.)

BAS's comment about not knowing what you don't know is a ubiquitous quality of the average DIY-er.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And your LABC may have views which override the provisions of the Wiring Regulations, such as when the Part M heights of sockets-outlets applies

The Wiring Regulations don't specify heights for accessories, only that sockets should be high enough to prevent damage to the socket, plug & cable when in use and when inserting/withdrawing the plug.

The Building Regulations don't specify a height either, only the guidance in Approved Document M, and whilst you might be on a losing battle to argue against those heights if Part M applies, the Building Regulations are clear on when that part does apply, so if an LABC tries to insist on socket/switch heights you don't want, and Part M does not apply, then you can (as diplomatically as you feel is needed ) tell them that their views are of no consequence, and what you intend to do is to comply with the law.

and exactly when the 17th Edition becomes the de-facto standard. (I would not be at all suprised if some LABCs adopt it immediately.)

They cannot possibly do that. Aside from the fact that although you may, and should, comply with the Wiring Regulations in order to ensure safety, you cannot be compelled to do so, you are quite at liberty to choose to work to the 16th until mid-year.

In reality I expect you'd have more problems with council numpties if you did adopt the 17th now, particularly regarding supplementary equipotential bonding in special locations.....

 

[DESL]

Well that helped the guy a lot.

I think some members of this forum have lost sight of what this site is all about - suggest some people click on the 'Home Page' link for this site and read it.

I do know the purpose of this site!!

I offer my advice for free, in my own time, based on my knowledge, experience.

Sometimes we (the professionals) can tell by the nature of the question that someone is biting off more than they can chew.

This will result in, what appears to be a very, curt reply.

I will add that if OP really wants to do it himself he should get a copy of the 'Electricians Guide to Building Regulations' read it and inwardly digest it.

 

[dingbat]

Yes Bas, my hasty post did deserve that response, however my point is that if you are involving the building control authorities it is generally their opinion that will prevail.

In some cases your approach...

if an LABC tries to insist on socket/switch heights you don't want, and Part M does not apply, then you [can] tell them that their views are of no consequence...

...may yield a result but the experience of many shows otherwise. I have encountered intransigent inspectors with their very own, imaginary versions of BS7671, BS5839 and Building Regs and have wasted many hours of my time trying to educate them.

It was my intention to alert the OP to find out exactly what his own building control office would require.

 

[Katron]

I understood it that heights of switches and sockets etc, to comply with part p were for new builds ( min 450 max 1200 ), and for rewires of rings should be positioned so not less accessible than before.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have encountered intransigent inspectors with their very own, imaginary versions of BS7671, BS5839 and Building Regs and have wasted many hours of my time trying to educate them. .

The tell them that unless they can show you in the law where what they say is true, they can f***-off, and if it comes to it you will sue them for unlawfully refusing you a completion certificate.

Sorry - but you have to fight back against what is at best incompetence that you are paying for, or at worst venal and self-serving lies that you are also paying for.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I understood it that heights of switches and sockets etc, to comply with part p were for new builds ( min 450 max 1200 ), and for rewires of rings should be positioned so not less accessible than before.

Part P doesn't say anything about accessory heights.

 

[Katron]

My mistake....its Part M of schedule 1

 

[dingbat]

Real world vs your world again, bas.

I self-certify, so my occasional run-ins have been largely academic, insofar as I've never had to change a thing for the benefit of building control. I have, however, encountered inspectors with rock-solid opinions about how certain things should be done, and a refusal to hear the evidence against their beliefs... despite my fairly vociferous attempts.

Bear in mind that most in the building trade, let alone the householder, have at best a tenuous grasp of the ever-shifting and oft-contradictory sands of regulation and it's little wonder that most accept the guidance/demands of the building inspector without question. To those trying to complete a project and those waiting to accept them the path of least resistance is the one usually followed.

You may have the time and right amount of righteous indignation to want to pursue such errant practitioners, but the rest of us generally don't.

(Yes, I know you won't be happy with that, but some things are genuinely not worth getting so upset about.)

 

[Katron]

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