Confused!!

[stevie12345]

I was wondering if you could answer a query about whether I require planning permission as i'm currently seriously confused. I am currently planning a new extension on my house and have spent quite a lot of time looking through the details about whether the work requires planning permission. I gather that a side and rear extension (if connected) can’t be a greater width than half the width of the house. My first query is whether the width of the house includes the garage. The front of my house is connected to the garage by the entrance hall and integrated roof (see attached photo) and so would this be included in the width of the overall house or would I just have to take the width at the back of the property?

Secondly the current extension, which was built around 1980, extends further from the back wall of the garage (see attached plan) then the allowed amount of 4 metres for a detached property. If the proposed extension joins to this would this would it thus require planning permission or will it be ok as the current extension has already had planning permission when it was built and the new section doesn’t extend more than 4 metres from the back wall of the property?

Any help would be gratefully received

Untitled

• stevie12345
• 9 Jan 2014
• 1

Untitled

• stevie12345
• 9 Jan 2014
• 2

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[Architexeter]

I think I'd go for a certificate application. ie PD.

 

[tony1851]

If the garage was built with the house, you measure the total width - including the garage.
Then looking at the extension from the back garden, if the width, including your 1980 extension, is less than half the width of the house (inc. garage) it may be p.d.
But the extension (proposed and existing together) must satisfy other criteria to be p.d. (eg not more than 4m high and not more than 3m high at the eaves).
Put your mind at rest as Archi suggests and apply for a LDC.

 

[cjard]

You need to first ensure that you do have PD rights and that they were not taken away at some point in the past either by condition of a planning permission or an article 4 direction (conservation area, aonb etc) which applies to a region

after this, a PD side extension mustn't be more than half the width of the original house, and it can be on both sides, eaves mustn't exceed 3 metres, it mustn't be more than 4 metres from the rearmost part of any rear wall or 8 metres with the neighbour consultation process.. and this is where I think you might get tripped up. You see when you construct an extension under PD so that it connects to another extension, then the WHOLE THING (old+new extension) must be compliant with the PD rules. In your context, the law says that the rear wall of the extension must not be more than 8 metres away from the rear wall of your garage, and if I'm understanding your plan, the existing extension's wall is 9.2 metres away from the garage rear wall as it stands so even with the neighbour consultation scheme allowing you 8 metres rather than the usual 4, you still cannot put on the small extension you drew on your plan.

See page 16 of the PD technical guidance:

(e) the enlarged part of the dwellinghouse would have a single storey and -
(i) extend beyond the rear wall of the original dwellinghouse by more
than (snip)

....

Measurement of the extension beyond the rear wall should be made from the base
of the rear wall of the original house (your garage wall) to the outer edge of the wall of the extension (the back wall of the 1980 extension)
(not including any guttering or barge boards).

For a small extension like this, whether anyone would actually care, is another matter. Whether anyone would remember that your extension is an extension and not part of the original house is another matter, and if you were shopped I can't imagine that a retrospective planning application for something like this would not succeed..

 

[tony1851]

In your context, the law says that the rear wall of the extension must not be more than 8 metres away from the rear wall of your garage,

Shouldn't it be measured from the rear wall of the house and not the garage?

 

[cjard]

the garage is part of the original house. The rear wall of the garage is a rear wall of the house as per the guidance on stepped houses. See page 18 of the guidance. It wouldn't even matter that there's a 2m gap between garage and 1980s extension because the law specifically talks about the two rear walls not being more than X metres apart (a wall that is rearwards of a rear wall mustn't be more than X metres rearwards of it).. it doesn't make any mention of whether the extension fills the entire gap :/

 

[stevie12345]

Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. I spoke to council today and they said if I wasn't sure to put in for a house holder development application to see if we I would need it. The fee for this is £65. If I pay this and find I need planning permission I presume I then have to pay for that full amount to. With this in mind, if it sounds that planning permission is likely to be required would it not make sense to pay up front for that?

Thanks

 

[Architexeter]

£65 Blimey,

I'd read the PD technical guidance and see if you can make own judgement and then submit the planning app or certificate app as appropriate.

The council has no magic book or guidance - they only have the information we have, so make an informed judgement that you can explain if the application is queried.

Do you have a planning agent that can advise?

 

[cjard]

note that you aren't guaranteed to get the right answer from the council - we've seen some awfully wrong interpretations of the GPDO here from people who've put in for and LDC and received duff advice from the council. that said, it could work in your favour here if the council get it wrong and permit (imho, because I really don't think what you're proposing is PD, but they might..)

 

[jeds]

Your proposal is PD. If it were me I would get on with it. If you want certainty I wouldn't bother with advice or certificates - just put in a householder planning application. The problem is planners tend to over-analyse these things so if they imagine a grey area in the certificate they might decide they have no option but refuse it. Whereas a planning app is more or les certain to be approved.

 

[cjard]

Your proposal is PD.

How so?

 

[tony1851]

I think cjard is correct.
The Guidance states that if the rear of the house is stepped in plan, the 3m maximum follows the steps.

 

[jeds]

I think cjard is correct.
The Guidance states that if the rear of the house is stepped in plan, the 3m maximum follows the steps.

That's correct. But the allowance follows the step - so he can extend 4m off each rear wall. (You're saying 3m - I can't see where he says the house is attached?)

Anyway, it's so low risk I'd just get on and build it. My main point was that it's not a good idea to apply for a certificate of lawfulness because that might be refused on a technicality. Whereas a householder app is almost certain to be approved.

 

[tony1851]

(You're saying 3m - I can't see where he says the house is attached?)

Yeah, my mistake - he implies it's detached by quoting 4m.
Agree he should just get on with it.