Consumer unit in a bathroom?

[Kaymo]

holmslaw - I dont know why you are getting so uppity, you havent even been involved in the discussion so far! Its a forum, and the question I asked was "anything in the regs that says this is not allowed", people contribute opinions and you are correct, I will do whatever I like, but I will listen to all the opinions first and make a decision.

JohnW2 - thanks for your comments, I understand all of these considerations and I am taking them into account but I dont think that regulations would need to be exhaustive to include a statement that simply said 'a consumer unit must not be fitted in a bathroom' which leads me to believe that the intention is that there are some circumstances where it could be permitted provided the regulations that you mentioned are considered.

bernardgreen - this is an interesting point, regardless of where the CU is fitted, as the room does not have any windows so I might look into some kind of battery operated light in there, even just for the possibility of the bulb failing.

 

[JohnW2]

JohnW2 - thanks for your comments, I understand all of these considerations and I am taking them into account but I dont think that regulations would need to be exhaustive to include a statement that simply said 'a consumer unit must not be fitted in a bathroom' which leads me to believe that the intention is that there are some circumstances where it could be permitted provided the regulations that you mentioned are considered.

As I said, it's a matter of individual interpretation of the regs - so those who believe one or both of those general regs I posted mean that an ordinary CU in a bathroom would be non-compliant would say that there is no need for a specific explicit mention of CUs in bathrooms in the regs.

Don't forget that it's only too easy to retrospectively make statements like yours about exhaustivity (i.e. saying that they could easily have included an explicit prohibition of ordinary CUs in bathrooms) - but that's because we know what particular situation we are actually talking about. However, if you think about it, we could be talking about almost anything (not just 'an ordinary CU') in any one of dozens of possible hostile environments - which would probably result in hundreds of specifics having gto be listed if they had attempted to be exhaustive in this respect.

Let's face it, even though it would be even sillier, we could be having much the same conversation about installing an ordinary CU on the outside wall of a house - and you might then be arguing that they could easily have included a statement that ordinary CUs must not be installed out of doors. Although I hope we all agree that would be ridiculous, I don't think you will find any such specific prohibition in the regs, so it would again be down to the 'general' clauses of the regs (such as I posted) to prohibit such a practice.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

What about 510.2, which ends "and shall take account of manufacturers' instructions."? I very much doubt that any reputable CU manufacturer would state that his CU and mcbs were suitable for installation on a bathroom.

 

[JohnW2]

What about 510.2, which ends "and shall take account of manufacturers' instructions."? I very much doubt that any reputable CU manufacturer would state that his CU and mcbs were suitable for installation on a bathroom.

Perhaps - but, unfortunately, given his/her views so far, I suspect that, having read those instructions, the OP would probably point out to us that the instructions didn't state explicitly that the CU and MCBs should not be installed in a bathroom!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[westie101]

Easy
The main fuse and meter are not designed to be fitted in a bathroom or have a room change of use to a bathroom.
It presents safety issues in an excessively damp atmosphere (we now don't fit them in kitchens either).

Where is this written, it doesn't need to be. As a qualified engineer in the Electricity Supply Industry It is my considered opinion that this is a dangerous situation owing to the presence of the shower, if I were to come across such a situation you would be given notice of disconnection of supply as allowed by the ESCQR regulations.
You would then have to appeal to the relevent government department to have that situation altered.

 

[JohnW2]

Easy .... if I were to come across such a situation you would be given notice of disconnection of supply as allowed by the ESCQR regulations.

Thanks. That's a pretty decisive answer for the OP, then !

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Kaymo]

JohnW2 - That 2nd last post is a bit out of order, the suggestion that I have made a decision and I am just looking to disagree is totally false. Its not lost on me that the majority opinion is that this is not a good idea and it is by no means my own preference but my question was whether the regs prohibited this and from the responses so far they clearly do not.

That doesnt mean that I have made any decisions but step 1 was simply to ascertain whether a CU in a bathroom was explicitly prohibited and step 2 would be to decide whether I could safely mitigate all of the environmental factors. The quote you mentioned "shall be so constructed or protected" states that the main concern rather than the location of a box is that it is protected from exposure, this requirement could be met by constructing a small enclosure which is completely sealed from that environment and vented to another room - I am sure I have read somewhere else that a cupboard is considered to be another room so I dont see why a purpose built and sealed enclosure couldnt exceed the protection given by a standard cupboard.

 

[Kaymo]

westie101 - thanks for this, would your opinion be the same if the electrical equipment was in a suitable enclosure as I mentioned above and was thus fully protected from moisture?

 

[stillp]

my question was whether the regs prohibited this and from the responses so far they clearly do not.

It seems to me that they clearly do, although not in the kind of specific language you would like.
I think you would struggle to protect a CU from the bathroom environment and still allow access to it in an emergency.

 

[JohnW2]

JohnW2 - That 2nd last post is a bit out of order, the suggestion that I have made a decision and I am just looking to disagree is totally false.

You have read too much into what I wrote - that was not the intended meaning of my post. I was saying that, whilst the manufacturer's instructions for the CU probably would not say that it was suitable for replacement in a bathroom, nor would they probably say explicitly that it should not be installed in a bathroom - hence if your reaction was consistent with what you have been saying about the Wiring Regulations, would you not have taken this as indicating that it could (reg-wise) be installed in a bathroom. Isn't that true?

... but my question was whether the regs prohibited this and from the responses so far they clearly do not.

I'm not so sure about that. It depends upon what 'regs' we're talking about but, as you've now seen 'the man from the DNO' has said that, under the regulations he works to, if he came across a main fuse and meter in a bathroom, he would take steps to have the electricity supply disconnected.

Kind Regards, John.
Edit: unclear wording clarified!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the room does not have any windows so I might look into some kind of battery operated light in there, even just for the possibility of the bulb failing.

Install a fluorescent light which has an emergency battery built in, or has a ballast which you can replace with an emergency one.

But as you've got the meter & cutout in there as well, it looks like you are going to have problems with your plan.

So, it's re-visit time.....

My initial reaction was that this would need to be moved but the lack of suitable alternative locations within a reasonable distance from the current location made me take a 2nd look at it.

You may have to try harder to find a location, move it further etc.

Could the meter & cutout be moved outside?

Re moving the CU, how many circuits are there? Would all cables need to be extended, or would some end up shorter?

 

[JohnW2]

You may have to try harder to find a location, move it further etc.
Could the meter & cutout be moved outside?
Re moving the CU, how many circuits are there? Would all cables need to be extended, or would some end up shorter?

Indeed. If it's not on an outside wall, I wonder what's on the other side of the wall this stuff is attached to. If the siutation is kind to the OP, there might be scope for it to be shifted fairly easily to a small cupboard on the other side.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Kaymo]

JohnW2/ban-all-sheds - There is no cupboard to move it to, my only option if I move it is to put it high on the wall in the hall or adjoining bedroom, any other location would require significant extending of the cables going to the consumer unit. Both choices would involve everything being at near ceiling level, >2m from the ground - the best of both would probably be to put in the bedroom where it would be in a corner above the door and could at least be boxed in to make it look a bit better. Again, I dont know if height might then become an issue as it would probably mean needing steps to reach the CU and meter. The joys of old houses!

 

[JohnW2]

JohnW2/ban-all-sheds - There is no cupboard to move it to, my only option if I move it is to put it high on the wall in the hall or adjoining bedroom, any other location would require significant extending of the cables going to the consumer unit. Both choices would involve everything being at near ceiling level, >2m from the ground - the best of both would probably be to put in the bedroom where it would be in a corner above the door and could at least be boxed in to make it look a bit better. Again, I dont know if height might then become an issue as it would probably mean needing steps to reach the CU and meter. The joys of old houses!

Extending cables is not that difficult if it would increase your options or make life easier. 'High up' is not recommended in terms of accessibility, but I think that most people would probably regard it as the lesser of the evils if the alternative was to have it in a bathroom!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

JohnW2/ban-all-sheds - There is no cupboard to move it to, my only option if I move it is to put it high on the wall in the hall or adjoining bedroom, any other location would require significant extending of the cables going to the consumer unit. Both choices would involve everything being at near ceiling level, >2m from the ground - the best of both would probably be to put in the bedroom where it would be in a corner above the door and could at least be boxed in to make it look a bit better. Again, I dont know if height might then become an issue as it would probably mean needing steps to reach the CU and meter. The joys of old houses!

Extending cables is not that difficult if it would increase your options or make life easier. 'High up' is not recommended in terms of accessibility, but I think that most people would probably regard it as the lesser of the evils if the alternative was to have it in a bathroom!
Kind Regards, John.

Yes but, from the photographs, the OP cannot remove/reposition the meter himself and that will remain in the steamy windowless bathroom to be.