Converting handle operated toilet to a button one.

[Ant1]

I need to replace my syphon (system not flushing all the water at once) and the valve (cytern being slow to fill up) therefore I was thinking of purchasing the Fluidmaster Leak Sentry Handle Adaptor Kit:

Screwfix Item # 78973 - http://www.screwfix.com/prods/78973...daptor-Kit;jsessionid=W2PRZPVLT1F1MCSTHZOSFFA

Then I came up through the same kit but for a button operated toilet (Screwfix Item # 63618 - http://www.screwfix.com/prods/63618...stern-Kit;jsessionid=TTB0L1EEXNUKQCSTHZPCFFI)

I was wondering if this is possible to simply replace the front handle by a front button. Apart from the size of the front hole on the citern, is there anything else I should be aware of to convert a handle operated toilet to a button one?

Thanks for your feedback,
Ant

 

[Rico99]

Hi there,

These systems from Fluidmaster really are the dogs.

Firstly, what type of toilet do you have close coupled or low level, not that it really matters anyway.

Only other thing you need to check is the size of the oulet on the bottom of your current syphon. As you will see in the item descrption the one you have picked ins for 1 1/2 inch syphon. Yours could be 2 inch depending on country of manufacture.

Anyway enjoy as I said above the are the dogs.

Rico

 

[Ant1]

Hi Rico,

Thanks for your reply, I have a close coupled toilet.

You are correct in regards to the size of the oulet, I will have to check it before purchasing the product however I am not able to do it right now as I need to dismantle the toilet.

I was going for a Fluidmaster system as according to the reviews this brand seems to be very good. What brand would you recommend?

Thanks again,
Ant

 

[btb23]

...is there anything else I should be aware of to convert a handle operated toilet to a button one?

Thanks for your feedback,
Ant

I went thorough the same process just this week, and from the bit of research I did it seems there are three types of valve that can used to flush, the syphon, the drop valve and the flapper.

The type you've listed is a flapper, and from what I can tell it flushes for as long as you the press handle or button, as it simply lifts the flap and lets the water down. They are very common in the USA.

There is the drop valve and the Duoflush syphon, but as the latter is handle operated it wasn't suitable.

I decided to go for the drop valve, mainly because each of the two flushes use a predetermined and adjustable amount of water. I also read on the American forums that the flapper needs regular maintenance, now that may or may not be the case with the Fluidmaster, but taking everything into account I picked the Opello drop valve. Google for flapper valve (not responsible for what else you might find!), and you can read the results for yourself.

It was extremely easy to fit, and is working just as expected. The button is two part, push the top and you get small flush, the lower half gives a full flush.

Hope that might have helped you decide.

 

[Ant1]

Hi btb23, thanks for your interesting comments, I agree that the drop valve seems much nicer.

In regards to the drop valve from ToolStation, would you know if the button would fit in replacement of a handle at the front of the citern? Did you actually purchase this valve?

I found the Opello drop valve on Screfix (http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;j...tton.x=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit), the reviews says that either buttons produce a small flush, you would actually need to press the button for longuer to get a full flush. Have you noticed that kind of issues with this valve?

Cheers,
Ant

 

[Ant1]

Found the spec of the Torbeck Variflush drop valve online: http://www.opella.co.uk/PDF Lefleats/Torbeck Variflush Leaflet.pdf

It seems to be excatly what I was looking for, however other people do not seem to agree http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/sanitary-ware/2989-drop-valves-versus-syphon-valves.html

Now I just need to find a fast (and silent if possible, but not essential) bottom entry fill valve, any advice anyone?

 

[btb23]

Yes I bought the one from Toolstation. It comes with the button and an adapter suitable for two sizes of 'handle hole', front handle here too and it fitted fine. There are actually 3 lengths of cable that connect the button to the valve, though only the medium is supplied, if you need longer or shorter e-mail or call Opella and they will post you out another cable free of charge.

The split button works fine, though if you hold the full flush section down longer it keeps flushing until empty so is like an extra big flush (don't ask!).

The only downside is the button is a little cheap, though I know Opella are a good company sure they would replace if it broke. If this part was better made, say a metal button, it would definitely improve the feel of it, though I suspect the operation would be just the same.

 

[btb23]

Found the spec of the Torbeck Variflush drop valve online: http://www.opella.co.uk/PDF Lefleats/Torbeck Variflush Leaflet.pdf

It seems to be excatly what I was looking for, however other people do not seem to agree http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/sanitary-ware/2989-drop-valves-versus-syphon-valves.html

Now I just need to find a fast (and silent if possible, but not essential) bottom entry fill valve, any advice anyone?

So they don't like them! I'm happy so far, but it's only been in use two days. I know the syphon is really the best design, cannot leak water like the drop valve or flapper. If the one I've got fails then I'll just fit the duoflush syphon and put it down to experience.

Good luck!

 

[Nige F]

20Variflush%20Leaflet.pdf[/url]

It
Now I just need to find a fast (and silent if possible, but not essential) bottom entry fill valve, any advice anyone?

Fluidmaster seem pretty good.

 

[Rico99]

Ant,

You've made the wrong choice IMHO. Fluidmaster give LIFETIME guarantee on their flapper valves, no maintenence needed, no moving parts to go wrong. Once the air bubble is positioned where you want it, it really is a fit and forget system. Can be operated by anbody, young, old, injured, disabled.

The lightest touch on handle or button starts the flapper moving, science does the rest.

As for fill valves again you CANNOT beat the fluidmaster.

Before you ask, NO i don't work for Fluidmaster, but there is nothing else on the market to beat them.

Rico

 

[Ant1]

Thanks for your feedback Rico, it looks like you agree with my original choice. I was not aware that the lightest touch on the handle/button would start the flapper moving, I though quite a bit of pressure was required.

I am going to read a bit more about both the flapper and drop down valves, will read a few reviews tonight and will make my mind up.

PS: according to what I read so far, I agree that Fluidmaster seems to be one of the most reliable brand on the market.

Ant

 

[Rico99]

Ant,

Fluidmaster is def the way to go.

The handle/button only needs the slightest touch as all you need to do is break the seal between the rubber flapper and the outlet. Once that is done the air inside the flapper takes it the reat of the way, filling with water and eventually closing again. Once closed the air still inside the flapper forces the water out and is ready to go again. You dont even need to hold the hand/button in.

It is the position of the airhole on the flapper that determines how long it stays open / how much water is released and this is altered by simply turning the flapper round until you find the right place for you.

As I said in my previous post, there are NO moving parts to go wrong on the flapper.

Couple this with their fill valve and you have THE best set up going. Quiet/fast/efficent.

Rico

 

[Ant1]

Rico,

I installed a Fluidmaster flapper valve this weekend, everything is working fine. However I have an outstanding question regarding your last comment:

You dont even need to hold the hand/button in.

In my case I need to hold the button in order to fully empty the citern. As soon as I unpress the button, the flapper closes automatically. Are you sure that the flapper can stay open even when the button is not being pressed?

Thanks for clarifying,
Ant

 

[Rico99]

Ant,

All depends on the position of the airhole on the flapper.

If you take a look, the flapper has numbers around it. 1-9 form memory.

If as position 1, then the flapper will drop almost straight away. Position 9 it stays open longer. You just need to work out the best number to get rid of everything in the pan to your satisfaction.

Rico

 

[Ant1]

Yeah, I noticed the settings on the flapper, it is currently set to 9 however I admit I haven't tried any other settings yet, or I might not have set it properly. Will try again as it might make a difference.

As shown from the manual, this setting controls the flush volume but I would have thought in terms of rate the water is going through the outlet and not in terms of time it takes for the flapper to shut.

Fluidmaster Flapper

• Ant1
• 24 Aug 2009
• 1

Found the following (extracted from http://www.fluidmasteruk.com/troubleshooting.aspx#3) which should help solve my problem:

- Problem:
=======
Flapper closing too quickly.

- Solution:
=======
This is straightforward and always due to the chain being too slack. Once the flapper is raised more than halfway it will stay open until it uses the working water and will close when the water line comes down to the pin size air hole which is found immediately under the flat sealing area of the flapper. Unlike the siphon which has to empty the cistern to work effectively, the Fluidmaster flapper flush valve will leave 3" to 4" of water in the cistern after flushing as the removal of the siphon has increased the water volume significantly. This retained water will not affect the efficiency of the flush.

Thanks again for your help Rico.