Cooker circuit without RCD question

[40 watt spark]

If there were other RCD protected sockets in the area I would just label the cooker socket "Non RCD - unsuitable for outside use".

If the NIC inspector couldn't find anything else wrong with an installation the non RCD cooker socket used to be one of their favorites for a "minor" on the audit. But if you argued your case they would back down.

Did exactly that with one of my jobs that the NIC looked at on Friday, initally he queried it, but as it was labeled 'not for use for outdoor equipment' (Dymo label not hand written) and all the other sockets in the kitchen were on an RCD he passed it (16th ed install by the way)

 

[Pensdown]

You obviously showed the inspector you knew what you were doing.

Even under the 17th the socket can be non RCD, 411.3.3 (b) assuming the cable feeding the CCU meets 522.6.6.

On the PIR table "Observations & Recommendations For Action To Be Taken" I've never understood why there isn't a sperate column for the reg number.

If the tester had to quote the reg number which the recommendations referred to it might stop some of them inventing regs.

 

[Norv]

That's something nobody has thought to ask - Norv - what code was against that item on the PIR?

BAS - Ive never met the Electrician that did the PIR's. The landlord gave me a list of things that electrician had found & it wasnt a PIR list. I've not done any certs as the landlord said the other electrician will check I have done whats on the list.

Spoke to the NIC today (when I could eventually get through) & they said in no uncertain terms I "HAD" to somehow RCD the cooker circuit regardless of the other sockets being protected, or remove the socket outlet or if the customer refused to have the work done, I had to get something in writing & signed to say he didnt want it replaced.

So, there we go. Going back tomorrow to replace it without a socket.

The NIC tech bloke said use a 40A, grid switch. Apparently Crabtree sell them.

 

[Pensdown]

Spoke to the NIC today (when I could eventually get through) & they said in no uncertain terms I "HAD" to somehow RCD the cooker circuit regardless of the other sockets being protected, or remove the socket outlet or if the customer refused to have the work done, I had to get something in writing & signed to say he didnt want it replaced.

Sorry Norv but that's a load of drivel.

 

[Norv]

Sorry Norv but that's a load of drivel.

I agree Pensdown but I could have argued the toss all day with the bloke & he started to do my head in. I cant believe the NIC will be taking another £450 or so, out my bank this month to stay registered with them. I cant re-type the whole conversation with the bloke but it was like talking to a tape recording, "YOU MUST RCD THE COOKER CIRCUIT, YOU MUST RCD THE COOKER CIRCUIT". I agree but surely there is some leway here.

Does 411.3.3 (b) come into effect, as it was only the microwave plugged into it anyway.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry Norv but that's a load of drivel.

I agree Pensdown but I could have argued the toss all day with the bloke & he started to do my head in. I cant believe the NIC will be taking another £450 or so, out my bank this month to stay registered with them.

It's a free country. If you don't like working to NICEIC standards then you're free to move to a different organisation. But if you can get paid to do work that isn't needed because someone else has convinced the customer that it is....

Does 411.3.3 (b) come into effect, as it was only the microwave plugged into it anyway.

What difference does what's plugged into it make?

 

[Norv]

We know that socket outlets need 30ma protection but what slightly concerns me is the NIC tech helpline says one thing, (but they are thinking in the real world) & other electricians say another. At the end of the day I'm getting paid anyway but I could have been doing something else.

What difference does what's plugged into it make?

It makes no difference BAS, What I meant was, does 411.3.3 (b) apply, I could have labelled the socket "to use with the microwave only" & still left the poor lady with a socket to run her microwave.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We know that socket outlets need 30ma protection

It's a good idea, but wasn't an absolute requirement until the 17th.

but what slightly concerns me is the NIC tech helpline says one thing, (but they are thinking in the real world) & other electricians say another.

What NIC are saying is that as far as they are concerned the regulations are to be enforced retroactively, and all existing installations which do not comply with the latest version are to be "failed" on PIRs and householders/landlords forced to bring them up to date if they want a NICEIC electrician to work on them.

The other electricians are saying (correctly) that the regulations are not retroactive, and from the POV of the regs householders/landlords can't be forced to bring their installations up to date

It makes no difference BAS, What I meant was, does 411.3.3 (b) apply, I could have labelled the socket "to use with the microwave only" & still left the poor lady with a socket to run her microwave.

Doesn't matter if it applies - NICEIC aren't saying what they do because of the regulations - they are imposing their own standards.