Cooker Wiring

[sjimd]

I'm soon to fit a new kitchen. The ring main is staying with a little bit of adjustment to a couple of socket positions. The lighting and the cooker hood fused connection will also be unaffected. The hob will be gas.

I'm having the existing electric double oven replaced with two separate single Neff electric ovens. The existing oven is supplied by a 32amp MCB at the consumer unit, 6mm T & E and a single 45 amp cooker switch.

The new ovens https://www.neff-home.com/uk/productlist/ovens-compact-ovens/ovens/single-ovens/B5ACM7HN0B are rated 13 amps. Would I be looking at getting another 45 amp cooker switch or getting the existing one replaced by two 13 amp switch fused connection units. I need to chase for any additional fittings prior to getting any electrical work done. Also would the 32 amp MCB remain or should it be changed for something else?

 

[flameport]

Would I be looking at getting another 45 amp cooker switch or getting the existing one replaced by two 13 amp switch fused connection units.

None of those.

Get one of these double outlets: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AA45DCOP.html to replace the existing single outlet and connect the two ovens to it.
Everything else remains the same.

 

[ericmark]

Gwent is in Wales, so your kitchen is a special location under the Part P rules, I am not sure what you are allowed to do, and what you can get away with as DIY however the fees are for first £5000 worth of work so you end up paying just shy of £300 to DIY, to my mind just not worth the hassle of DIY when getting some one who is registered to self certify is going to end up paying around same as to DIY.

I would do as flameport has suggested.

I have tried to read the Part P approved document as to what is permitted and it is as clear as mud, it would seem I can use an extension lead, but if I then put two screws in the wall to fix it and some cleats to hold cable out of the way, I must pay LABC which is clearly crazy, it seems they allow fitting a FCU in England even when by doing so it produces a new circuit without issuing a compliance or completion certificate.

I did contact the LABC lucky for me it was free because work was for mothers disability, they never even looked at the completed work, they just issued the certificate on my taking the installation certificate to council offices. And when I wanted to get a copy having misplaced the original, there is a 3 month wait and a £65 per hour charge for them looking for it. So it would seem pointless. I was asked for the paperwork when selling the house, and mother has clearly filled it away, when I explained there would be a 3 month delay, told to forget it.

So you make up your own mind as to if your going to do it legal.

 

[sjimd]

None of those.

Get one of these double outlets: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AA45DCOP.html to replace the existing single outlet and connect the two ovens to it.
Everything else remains the same.

Wouldn’t a 13amp fuse or mcb be required somewhere in the setup

 

[JohnW2]

Wouldn’t a 13amp fuse or mcb be required somewhere in the setup

Since fuses exist primarily to protect the cables, that would depend upon the size of the final bits of cable going to the ovens.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Sureitsoff?]

None of those.

Get one of these double outlets: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AA45DCOP.html to replace the existing single outlet and connect the two ovens to it.
Everything else remains the same.

those double outlets always seem wrong to me. three terminals for live and neutral but two for earth? would a bit more brass really make it that much more expensive

 

[JohnW2]

.... I have tried to read the Part P approved document as to what is permitted and it is as clear as mud, it would seem I can use an extension lead, but if I then put two screws in the wall to fix it and some cleats to hold cable out of the way, I must pay LABC which is clearly crazy ....

I'm not even sure of that (as you say 'as clear as mud'). The 2006 version of Approved Doc P (which is the current version for Wales) (and, indeed, the 2013 version for England says much the same) says ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[sjimd]

Since fuses exist primarily to protect the cables, that would depend upon the size of the final bits of cable going to the ovens.

Kind Regards, John

I’m not an electrician, obviously, and won’t be doing it myself, but no fuse and no switch to each oven doesn’t seem right.
I just want to get the chasing and box locations and numbers right

 

[AndyPRK]

The only real advantages of 2 switches is if an element fails and trips the rcd, you could isolate it with the new switch and use the other oven.

Some poor electrical will have to terminate all the wires though.

The earth block is probably small due to room constraints, cpc wires being smaller , and the fact they don’t carry current normally

 

[ericmark]

There are rules for rotating equipment with isolator within sight etc. But for heating it is not in the electrical regulations however may be in building regulations however the normal is a single isolator for both ovens then to a cooker connection unit after the isolator, however what you don't want to do is set it all up and the electrician say no, so get the electrician who is doing the work to say what he wants.

 

[ericmark]

I'm not even sure of that (as you say 'as clear as mud'). The 2006 version of Approved Doc P (which is the current version for Wales) (and, indeed, the 2013 version for England says much the same) says ...

View attachment 159827

Kind Regards, John

Yes but being under Part P is not the same as needing to register the work. It seems crazy to have to pay out just because you have fixed it out of harms way.

 

[flameport]

I’m not an electrician, obviously, and won’t be doing it myself, but no fuse and no switch to each oven doesn’t seem right.

Cables are protected by the 32A MCB in the consumer unit - just as they are now with the double oven.

Two single ovens are electrically identical to a double one - a double oven is just two singles in the same box.
Just as a cooker with ovens and hob on top is the same as two separate ovens and a separate hob.
The fact that the items are not built into the same casing changes nothing.

If you really want individual switches they can be installed. However they are not required and if installed will never be used.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes but being under Part P is not the same as needing to register the work.

You presumably mean "notify the work", in which case, I agree - and I'm very pleased to see you saying that, since there is at least one person around here who, despite being told very many times, repeatedly talks about 'Part P' when he means notification

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have tried to read the Part P approved document as to what is permitted and it is as clear as mud,

Why? Throw it away and read the actual law.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/schedule/4/made

 

[ericmark]

I wanted to alert the poster that it may need notification without saying you must notify. As it is up to him the read the documents and decide if he wants to notify or not. It does seem the approved documents are really guides, the actual Part P is another document and also would include any case law, and as far as I am aware people have been fined for saying they were scheme members but were not, and for dangerous work.

But no one has been taken to court purely for not notifying work required by Part P. I would be interested in any cases you know of where there was nothing wrong with workmanship and they did not claim to be scheme members where they were taken to court.