Countertop switches for kitchen appliances??

[zand108]

Hi All,

I am remodelling my kitchen and kitting it out with all new appliances.

I want to have a socket below the countertop and a switch above the countertop for each appliance so that they can easily be turned off.

I was told that the switches should all come with 13a fused spurs except the oven switch cos there is already a fuse in the consumer unit for that purpose.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221970&criteria=13A_FUSED&doy=15m7

Overall there are 9 new appliances being installed so I am thinking about going with the MK Logic Plus Grid Switches to minimise the amount of space being taken up.

At an electrical store I was told that if I go with the 20a Double Pole Switches MK Grid Switches then I won't need to use fused spurs with the switches as they work like the MCBs in the consumer unit and flip up when tripped... is this true?[/img]

 

[sparkydude]

No this is not true. A 20A DP switch should normally be used fed from a 16-20A MCB in the board, the best way to do this is to use 20A switches and fuse modules in the grid sytstem as this provides the necessary fusing down. Otherwise the cable to the outlet is not sufficiently protected against overload.

Nick

 

[zand108]

Chuffing heck that was quick thanks!!!

Even as the assistant was telling me this I thought it sounded unlikely.

 

[nozspark]

I think that you will find that 20A is the rating of the contacts, not the terminals!!

Just like a single socket (or twin even) is rated at 13A, but you connect it to a 32A ring!!

 

[ColJack]

theres something for MK to pioneer then, micro breakers that look like switches...yay...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You can already get them. (Not MK).

Zand - have a word with the store manager - tell him he has a staff member giving lethal advice.....

 

[zand108]

Are you saying that switches like the ones described to me exist just not in the MK Grid range?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Link doesn't work - go to the RS website, follow

Home -> Electrical Installation -> Fuses and Circuit Breakers -> Equipment Mounting Circuit Breakers -> Thermal - Hydraulic (Circuit Breakers)

Other makes and suppliers are available.

 

[davelx]

I've seen kitchens with multi-gang FCUs - ie 4 switches and fuses in a single faceplate, - with provision for labels, but I can't find any source.

Anyone know who makes them? (I know you can build them, with grid plus, for example - but these were not grids, there were no bezels/join lines other than around the fuse holder which flush fitted into the faceplate exactly them same way as the normal FCU does)

 

[zand108]

Hi again,

Contrary to my original post I now realise that I want to go with the 13A resistive 10AX DP switches from the Scolmore Click Mini Grid Modules range as shown via the link below:

http://www.alertelectrical.com/Wiri...le-System/Click-Mini-Grid-Modules/default.asp

I have nine appliances & 2 long undercabinet lights to buy switches for which will be grouped as follows:

[Washing Machine - Dishwasher]
[Undercabinet Lighting] x2
[Tumble Dryer - Cooker Hood - Hob]
[Microwave - Fridge - Freezer]
[Oven]

My "electrician" - (he's is actually just a kitchen fitter) wants to fit one 20a DP fused spur sockets for each appliance.

Does that then mean that for the scolmore click switches I need to add the modules in (Switch/fuse) pairs.

So will I need 11 seperate 13a fused connection modules:
Search for: MD047WH in
http://www.flatplate.co.uk/Modules_Brochure.pdf

To sit beside the (9 appliance switches + 2 undercabinet lights switches in their respective face plates.
http://www.alertelectrical.com/Wiri...le-System/Click-Mini-Grid-Modules/default.asp

So there will be 22 modules in all??

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have nine appliances & 2 long undercabinet lights to buy switches for which will be grouped as follows:

[Washing Machine - Dishwasher]
[Undercabinet Lighting] x2
[Tumble Dryer - Cooker Hood - Hob]
[Microwave - Fridge - Freezer]
[Oven]

Are these going to be in 3 separate places around the kitchen? Just wondered why you've chosen a grid system without a plate large enough to get all the switches into.

My "electrician" - (he's is actually just a kitchen fitter) wants to fit one 20a DP fused spur sockets for each appliance.

There's no such thing.

But he may have a point about fusing - how do you intend to connect to the appliances?

And what circuit are the lights on?

 

[zand108]

Are these going to be in 3 separate places around the kitchen? Just wondered why you've chosen a grid system without a plate large enough to get all the switches into.

Yeah spread out across five different areas of the kitchen. But no one area has more than three grid switches init so it shouldn't look too cluttered... Hopefully.

My "electrician" - (he's is actually just a kitchen fitter) wants to fit one 20a DP fused spur sockets for each appliance.

There's no such thing.

After a hasty phone call to his electrician my "kitchen fittrician" agrees with you and now wants 13a DP fused spur outlets for each appliance.

But he may have a point about fusing - how do you intend to connect to the appliances?

Up untill about 20min ago I didn't have a clue about how the "fittrician" was gonna connect the appliances he hadn't said a word about it to me. So I just assumed he was gonna plug them in normally. He just asked me to go buy the sockets and that was it.

But I called Scolmore and spoke to a technician and after getting off the phone with him I think the fitter was planning to use unfused flex outlets for all the appliances. with 13a dp fused spur switch above the counter for each appliance. I will ask him when he comes in tommorow.

And what circuit are the lights on?

I think it's on the same circuit as the sockets but I will ask him!

---

The really helpful Scolmore technician has given me 2 options to connect the minigrid switches.

1)

Use 13a fused flex outlets behind the built-in appliances and above the counter top use only the 13A resistive 10AX DP switches he described the twin 20a dp switches as "overkill".

2)

Use unfused flex outlets behind each appliance. Above the counter top Combine a 13A resistive 10AX DP switch module with a fused connection module for each appliance. Fiddly but can definitely be done.

--

Elsewhere I was advised to use unfused flex outlets behind each appliance. Above the counter just use the twin 20a dp switches only and rely on the MCB in the CU to trip if neccessary.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yeah spread out across five different areas of the kitchen. But no one area has more than three grid switches init

So 6 modules if you have fuses - and they tend to feel more logical if in two rows of 3, so each fuse is under the related switch.

After a hasty phone call to his electrician my "kitchen fittrician" agrees with you and now wants 13a DP fused spur outlets for each appliance.

You really haven't chosen someone sufficiently skilled for this job, have you...

Up untill about 20min ago I didn't have a clue about how the "fittrician" was gonna connect the appliances he hadn't said a word about it to me. So I just assumed he was gonna plug them in normally. He just asked me to go buy the sockets and that was it.

But I called Scolmore and spoke to a technician and after getting off the phone with him I think the fitter was planning to use unfused flex outlets for all the appliances. with 13a dp fused spur switch above the counter for each appliance. I will ask him when he comes in tommorow.

Do that - there is absolutely no point in having fuse modules in a grid above the worktops, and in FCUs or plugs beneath it.

The really helpful Scolmore technician has given me 2 options to connect the minigrid switches.

If you use flex outlets, what happens if you or a service engineer needs to remove the appliance for servicing?

Use unfused flex outlets behind each appliance. Above the counter top Combine a 13A resistive 10AX DP switch module with a fused connection module for each appliance. Fiddly but can definitely be done.

More fiddly than having to use 2.5mm² outgoing cables?

Elsewhere I was advised to use unfused flex outlets behind each appliance. Above the counter just use the twin 20a dp switches only and rely on the MCB in the CU to trip if neccessary.

 

[sparkydude]

You and your kitchen fitter are not suitably qualified to be undertaking this job it seems, as for the advice from scolmore well i would love to hear him defend himself in court when your house burns down. What he proposes is against regulations and also dangereous, th switches would be fed from a 32a ring main i am assuming and so are not rated to take the loading of the circuit. If you have seperate radials to each appliane from the board you still have 16A breakers on 13A switches which is not correct. I suggest you get a REAL electrician involved and tell your fittrician to go back to college and stop wasting your time and potentially risking you and your families lives with his stupid ideas.

 

[phatboy]

4 years late but had to reply to this.

No, you really didn't.