Cylinder not plumbed correctly?

[nervous123]

As requested, please see various pics of the cylinder and framework.

Please feel free to be as frank as you like about the quality of the work.

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• nervous123
• 3 Nov 2010
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• nervous123
• 3 Nov 2010
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• nervous123
• 3 Nov 2010
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• nervous123
• 3 Nov 2010
• 1

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• nervous123
• 3 Nov 2010
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• nervous123
• 3 Nov 2010
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[nervous123]

Amusingly quite an apt username given that unvented cylinder install. Id be nervous too

Care to elaborate? (more pics just uploaded)

 

[OvertonPlumber]

discharge is classic looks to be terminated into the overflow.
that install is damm right dangerous and very poorly piped up. I like the lagging and clips!!

 

[mickyg]

i wouldnt say its dangerous, both the exp valve and tprv are connected openly to a tundish and the EV is installed in the correct location, pipework wise, so worst case scenario is water spillage. But it is very shoddy indeed and god knows what they were thinking with the piping to that combination valve, that just shouts "I have no idea what im doing!".

 

[mickyg]

so list of faults?
basics:
Expansion vessel unsupported
no clips
no lagging
no air bleed on cylinder coil connections
naughtier faults:
exp valve relief pipe goes up hill before joining tprv pipe and terminating into tundish
discharge pipe goes into plastic pushfit and then? overflow? probably reused the overflow from the old tanks lol
combination valve is plumbed in completely wrong.

what have i missed?

 

[Agile]

The pressure reducing valve would seem to be connected so that it will not do any pressure reduction.

Quite an odd installation really!

Putting that valve above the cylinder or fitting a valve after it ( but before the 6 Bar PRV ) would enable it to be worked on without draining the cylinder.

Tony

 

[nervous123]

I've emailed a chap who's been a Gas service engineer for over 30 years to ask him to have a look at my pics and comment. Please see his response below - is he being over-dramatic?

Put quite simply, without seeing more.... that has got to be one of the worst examples we've ever seen....! There are SO MANY defects, and accompanied by such an appalling standard of work, the whole installation is an absolute disaster... I may even put your pctures up on the website on the SOS page............... Myself and my colleagues at the college, are amused and shocked by the photos you've supplied. Do you mind if we use them for teaching purposes? (I have to ask).

I really don't know what to suggest, other than, ripping the whole lot out, and starting again.
Really sorry for not being more positive, but I really can't suggest anything else, judging by what we've seen.

We've got a list of faults that fill up a sheet of A4 already... the things you need to worry about are:
1. Having half a metric tonne of water balancing on a sheet of 10mm board, with no support! ( hope you've got good buildings insurance)
2. Discharge pipework unable to discharge correctly
3. Discharge pipework fitted with incorrect materials (unable to contain super heated steam/vapour)
4. Possible bridging out of safety thermostats on cylinder (cable running somewhere other than control centre) get the system wiring checked!

Basically, the installation contravenes: Building Regulations. Water Regulations. Gas Safety Regulations. Electrical Regulations.

My colleague suggested calling in Building Control officers to inspect, and possibly pursue the installer.

My other concern, is that a Gas Safe installer has connected a new boiler to this installation, which leaves doubts as to the quality of that installation also!

 

[Agile]

I dont know why you felt a need to ask anyone else when several of us have already said the same thing.

To be a little less dramatic it can be sorted out but would take about a day and use about £30 of bits.

Its not very clear to me what its supported on but it should be over a load bearing wall. Is it?

Water containers should be stood on a minimum of 18 mm marine ply as chipboard goes soggy and loses all strength if there is a leak.

Anyone working on these needs the relevant Certificate.

Tony

 

[nervous123]

I dont know why you felt a need to ask anyone else when several of us have already said the same thing.

To be a little less dramatic it can be sorted out but would take about a day and use about £30 of bits.

Its not very clear to me what its supported on but it should be over a load bearing wall. Is it?

Water containers should be stood on a minimum of 18 mm marine ply as chipboard goes soggy and loses all strength if there is a leak.

Anyone working on these needs the relevant Certificate.

Tony

Thanks for your response.

1. I had emailed the chap asking if he'd come round and inspect it... to which I received the above response. (Besides, i am nervous!)
2. How much could I expect to pay for a day of labour (piece of string?)
3. I dont know what it's supported on. Having said that I may have problems with my load supporting wall (see my other post re RSJ installed correctly) so it may be a good thing it's not resting on it.
4. Can an engineer self-certify his work or will I need/want to involve BC?

 

[Agile]

£240 is a common day rate for longer jobs but most would charge an extra 20-50% to cover overheads and unforseen problems ( could be many ).

A correctly certificated engineer can self certify his work but the original installation must still be notified to Building Control. This is usually done through a certification body like CORGI etc. but in theory can be done direct.

Its essential that its correctly supported in a suitable location.

Tony

 

[nervous123]

Tony, please can you advise:

I've had 3 guys with unvented ticket have a look. One works for a contractor who wants £800. The second wants £575 but admits 'he is dear' and the third wants approx £300 but needs to work it all out at home.

The second one says he can certify the cylinder and fill in Benchmark booklet (and I think notify it to LABC).
Third one says he cannot do this, as he physically cannot lag or clip all the pipes so it cannot entirely comply with B'Regs. Also he is unwilling to certify an installation which from the start has been done so badly. At best he will get it up to a safe functoning position.

So...who is correct? Should I be nervous that the second one says he can notify it? Or is it worth paying the extra £££ so that I have a cylinder that has been 'certified/notified.

Thanks a lot

(NB-think they're both local - I wonder if you know either of them)