DAMP decision

[yamato]

I have damp. I need help

long story...

I bought a house about 4 years ago and a year after we moved in damp appeared on the walls (gabel end of terraced). A few builders came round and said "the neighbours drive is too high and it's breaching your damp course."

I wrote to the neighbour and asked him to pay for the work to be rectified. he's a property developer and he basically said 'no'. and that the land has always been at that height.

Anyway, I decided the best option was to just get damp profing done. Did that and the problem was fixed for a few months.

Next teh damp patches start to appear 'above' where the line of the injecta stuff was done. So obviously the problem is not fixed. It also appeared on the door frame between the front reception and back room of the terraced.

I got in touch with the damp people and they came round and said they could do more work, -but this is, to my mind, not going to solve the problem and be really expensive.

I decided that the only route was court so I rang a lawyer. The lawyer told me to get some evidence that the drive was causing the damp. She suggested a civil enginner would be the way to go.

I got a civil engineer out and he looked at it and took some pictures etc. The guy basically says 'it's impossible to say for sure that their drive is the problem. You've had damp proofing done and even though their drive is quite high, it's not entirely over your damp course. Also you've had damp work done so it shouldn't be a problem.'

His suggestion was pull up the floor boards and have a look at whehther there is water underneah.

this would involve pulling up all the laminate and the floorboards beneath. It would be very expensive.

Another builder came round and said he could insert a drain next to the side of the drive which would, he assures me, probably solve the problem.

I wrote to the neighbour again asking him to pay half. He refused. I wrote a third time asking if he would object to me getting the work done if I paid. He said that would be fine, -with conditions I don't damage his property.

This would cost about £800 quid which is fine is it solves the problem. But would it?

So, what are my options?

1. sue the neighbour? -don't have any evidence he's causing the problem
2. build a drain? -it may work, it may not. £800 down the loo.
3. Pull up the floorboards? Expensive and may prove nothing. Not even sure what I would do if there was water under there?

any ideas?

 

[jason61c]

Have you thought about getting your cash back from the damp cowboys who suggested a chemical DPC would be the answer? These guys really do sell snake oil.

 

[wessex101]

My advice would be to stop listening to bad advice. Lawyers, Civil Engineers, Builders, Damp Proofing Contractor. They all seem to be jumping to conclusions without properly investigating the problem.

Damp is always a difficult thing to pin down but it helps if you start with the basics. What is the wall construction...brick, stone, solid, cavity etc. Is there an existing damp proof course if yes what type, position etc. What is the floor construction and is how does it relate to any DPC in the wall. You may be able to do this by visual inspection but more likely it will involve some opening up.

Once you have established what the construction is then you stand a better chance of identifying what the defect is that is causing the damp.

If it is due to high external ground level and the wall is 9 inch solid brickwork I would go with digging out a narrow trench along the affected wall to get at least 150mm below DPC level (with neighbour's permission obviously). While you are at it make sure that any timber floor joists are well protected and any sub-floor ventilation is not blocked, not related to the damp issue but may be the next thing to go wrong.

If you need expert advice try a reputable damp proofing contractor (they do exist among all the cowboys) pay for an independent damp proofing surveyor or get a good Building Surveyor in (not the muppets who do the Homebuyers Reports) Don't waste your time with expensive lawyers or Civil Engineers unless you are building a new motorway.

 

[ree]

Surely you have an underfloor access trap thats not been laminated over?
How else has any work - pipes and cables - been carried out in the crawl space?

The traps are often found under stairs.

As for the other difficulties, why not post pics of internal and external situation, and search for further information on here?

 

[yamato]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.

you thought about getting your cash back from the damp cowboys who suggested a chemical DPC would be the answer?

Yes I've tried. The claim that it was guaranteed until I wrote to them asking for them to sort it out. They then claimed that only one certain deal was guaranteed, not the one I had -of course.

If you need expert advice try a reputable damp proofing contractor (they do exist among all the cowboys) pay for an independent damp proofing surveyor or get a good Building Surveyor in (not the muppets who do the Homebuyers Reports) Don't waste your time with expensive lawyers or Civil Engineers unless you are building a new motorway.

Well I had injecta do it and they seem like a pretty reputable company, or are they not? If they are not, who on earth are? The guy who did the report for me wasn't a civil engineer, I just checked the paperwork, he was a chartered building & quantity surveyor.

Damp is always a difficult thing to pin down but it helps if you start with the basics. What is the wall construction...brick, stone, solid, cavity etc. Is there an existing damp proof course if yes what type, position etc. What is the floor construction and is how does it relate to any DPC in the wall. You may be able to do this by visual inspection but more likely it will involve some opening up.

it's brick, I've added a gallery so you can see. There are (now) two damp proof courses. the external one and the internal injected one. The floor in the front room is laminate and is concrete in the back room. Both rooms have these (as you can see) bubbling patches on the wall.

When you say "opening up" do you mean removing the laminate?

If it is due to high external ground level and the wall is 9 inch solid brickwork I would go with digging out a narrow trench along the affected wall to get at least 150mm below DPC level (with neighbour's permission obviously). While you are at it make sure that any timber floor joists are well protected and any sub-floor ventilation is not blocked, not related to the damp issue but may be the next thing to go wrong

thanks.

Surely you have an underfloor access trap thats not been laminated over?
How else has any work - pipes and cables - been carried out in the crawl space?

The traps are often found under stairs.

As for the other difficulties, why not post pics of internal and external situation, and search for further information on here

I don't think we have an under floor access trap. It's a very old house. I'm not even sure that we have a crawl space TBH. We have a pantry if that's what you mean?

 

[yamato]

H.

 

[wessex101]

So from the photos the wall is clearly garden wall bond so I will assume it is 9 inch solid brickwork. (check thickness of wall to confirm) Assuming the original damp proof course level is now buried somewhere below that driveway you have 2 options....

Lower the external ground level

or apply internal tanking to waterproof the wall from the penetrating damp and re-plaster.

Another thing to investigate is the floor. If it is concrete as you suggest does it have a damp proof membrane and what is the arrangement where the floor meets the damp proof course in the wall?. That will need hacking off small patch of plaster, removing piece of skirting board and probably lifting the laminate flooring and breaking out small hole in concrete floor.

The work the damp proofing company has done appears to be a complete and utter waste of time and money. Obviously one of the numerous cowboy outfits. Injecta appear to be members of PCA so lodge a complaint with them if Injecta are playing silly beggars.

I have never come across a Chartered Surveyor who had dual designation as a Building Surveyor and Quantity Surveyor, a very rare beast indeed. But either he is a fool or there is something that is not showing on those photos if he could not identify the problem or at least give you some clear advice regarding further detailed investigations.

 

[jason61c]

Remember to get the cowboys back for a refund.

I wouldn't tank the internal wall as the moisture has to go somewhere, it'd effectively mask the problem which I don't think is the right way to go about it.

If the driveway is to blame(you've not had cavity wall insulation have you?), and its fairly recent you should have someone write a letter to your lovely man next door explaining it all.

 

[jason61c]

Also the idiots injected the bricks not the cement course.

 

[gregers]

nothing wrong with the bricks being injected,we used to do this when we used a spirit dpc solution,but 1 thing i have noticed is,its to low.
the dpc needs to be 6" .yours is injected at ground level.this then allows splash to go over the dpc injection.
also im surprised there isnt a gully/french drain around the wall.

 

[jason61c]

nothing wrong with the bricks being injected,we used to do this when we used a spirit dpc solution,but 1 thing i have noticed is,its to low.
the dpc needs to be 6" .yours is injected at ground level.this then allows splash to go over the dpc injection.
also im surprised there isnt a gully/french drain around the wall.

surely the idea of a chemical injection is that its spreads horizontal though a level course to form a 'barrier'.

I can't see how it'd work in brick... I'd ask what they used and read how it should be applied.

 

[gregers]

the idea of a chemical dpc is to form a continuous band ,there are various ways that for some strange reason are approved throughout the damp industry.the spirit based fluids were injected under pressure into the brick itself,we used to go upto 120psi,then you have the water borne fluids which were also injected into both brick and pug line,including gravity fed into the pug course etc,now i do believe they use 'creams' which are meant to also work?
whether you believe in the term 'rising damp' is a bone of contention.
some say it doesnt exist,but if this is so then why do we continue installing physical dpc's in walls and floors.
heres a load of pics,of differing methods.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...9NOWS7Aafx4HwAQ&ved=0CEQQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=766

 

[yamato]

thanks for all these suggestions. I'm starting to feel that there may be something I can do about this problem.

regarding a refund the company wrote:

Our 30 year guarantee is for rising damp only and not penetrative damp which is subject to forces such as leaky guttering/drains and lashing rain therefore not guaranteed and paying extra would not make any difference to eligibility

I hope this gives answers to your question

I didn't pursue this and I became a bit disenchanted with damp companies as we had two come round to look at the problem and they both gave different solutions.

 

[AronSearle]

View media item 79344this shows the neighbours drive and the wall. I think that is a vent at the bottom there. I just cleaned it out because it was full of stones.

It can't be vent, and if it was it is now a drain.

Does it go into the side of the wall, or down into the ground.

 

[yamato]

I goes into the side of the wall.