Disclaimer Fitting plans

[chirpychippy]

Good day,

Some of you on here will know exactly what I'm talking about "It is the fitters responsibility to check all measurements prior to installation of kitchen to ensure validity of plan"

I've just been on a 30 mile round trip to check measure fitting plans for a kitchen i am installing. The plan states 2775mm on one wall but it's 2440mm in reality, another wall measurement is similar and there's other issues. I've told customer to go back to supplier and tell them to come out and measure again as kitchen will not fit.

Now I don't fancy another 30 mile round trip "petrol,time,wear and tear to my van" to check measure it again.

To my mind it is the kitchen designer/suppliers responsibility to get their measurements correct and not fob it off to the fitter with a cra**y disclaimer, does this disclaimer hold any water?? Does anyone know??

Thank you

 

[KenGMac]

chirpychippy, good evening.

I have mixed feelings about this sort of imposed clause, that being the fitter has to do a final check on the dimensions obtained by the designer / manufacturer?

As far as I am concerned, the "Designer", who has visited, measured, and is providing the goods, should have got the correct result, to be out as far as you allude to is simply Not Acceptable!

There is a very high burden on the Designer, for the "Designer" to get the overall plan wrong by from what you say is simply un-acceptable!

For the "Designer" to shall we call it pass the buck to you as a fitter, no more, no less, [not the designer who has formulated the overall design] in my opinion is simply not on. In such a [dare I say it] small Contract,

OK, say the "Designer" of a steel frame that is 2 / 4 / 100 stories high will put in a caveat such as you have imposed on you, why? because the manufacturer of the steel beams and columns need to have high degrees of accuracy , the "Designer" has to ensure that eh dimensions of the steel columns and beams must be the responsibility of the "Designer"

As far as I am concerned, to get the Di mentions that far out is irresponsible to say the least, it smacks of an un-trained house to house Salesperson who does not appreciate dimension control and the follow on outcome.

Ken.

 

[chappers]

I would say yes it's always the fitters responsibility to check the layout fits as you have done.
But agree to be 335mm out makes you wonder what other issues you might find and smacks of total incompetence.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Yes it must always be a fitters responsibility, just as it is always a builders responsibility rather than an architects to size a steel beam for a new opening for example. But as chappers says such an error of 335 here is incompetence.

 

[chirpychippy]

Yes it is bloody ridiculous that the measurements are as far out as they are, this doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't really have an issue with check measuring anyone's plans, but to state what amounts to "if the kitchen doesn't fit its the fitters fault" to my mind is utter ****e, surely the onus is on the designer to get his/her measurements correct "after all this is a large part of their job role.
The irony about this plan is that even if the measurements were correct the units wouldn't have fitted anyway it has literally been designed with no movement no spare millimetres even such that whilst the wall measures 2450 at worktop height at plinth height it is 2440 and at cornice height it 2455, no fillers, just a 20mm tower end panel flat against a very wonky wall measured only in one place. So no I disagree, if kitchen designers want to cram every last millimetre into their design and don't leave "ANY" room for manoeuvre then its entirely the designers fault that is doesn't fit.

Rant over!

 

[conny]

We 'tested' one of these laser tapes in work last week. Set it on a bench and took a measurement. Left it for 10 minutes exactly where it was and took another measurement. It was 9mm longer! Left it again and it was 6mm longer than the original. Then had to leave it for a few hours as a machine broke down. When we came back and took a final measurement it was 4 mm shorter than the original. Each time we took a measurement we also took ne with a steel tape rule. There was no deviation using the tape.
After discussing these readings between ourselves and the QA guys we came to the conclusion that the only possible cause could be the air temperature changing during the day.
Can't remember the model but it was made by Bosch so not a cheapie from a diy shop.

 

[Doggit]

It is the fitters responsibility to check all measurements prior to installation of kitchen to ensure validity of plan"

I think this clause should really read, "we have to rely on a more experienced person to verify that the design can be implemented successfully".

The problem with the kitchen industry, is that most of the designers know their product range, but have absolutely no experience of then fitting the units, nor of looking at a job, and of taking into account any vagaries in the layout of the kitchen. They really should be sent out on a couple of jobs with a fitting team to get some real life work experience.

But the fitter checking out the job beforehand, makes them aware of any issues before they get on site, and then find they can't do the job. But it's time the kitchen firms stopped taking advantage of the fitters, and gave them a nominal amount to cover the real life pre installation survey.

 

[RichA]

How much tolerance is it best to leave? i.e. if I am measuring/planning/ordering my own wood/painted kitchen how much tolerance should I leave and how is this space best hidden later?

 

[Doggit]

Check how square the room is, and how straight and level the walls are. The kitchen I'm working on has walls that curve outwards front to back, and then outwards top to bottom as well, so I've had to put a few spacers behind the wall cupboards, and the base units as well. 30mm spare should handle most problems on a reasonable squareish room, and you'd then use a couple of offcuts (of whatever you deem most suitable) to then fill the gap to the wall.