Do I need a new CU when upgrading my boiler in the kitchen?

[miker7]

Hi,

Been recommended to ask a question on here from another forum.

I'm having my boiler upgraded to a vaillant combi and moved about 8 feet along the kitchen wall. Got an estimate for the work (i asked for a quote and only realised it was an estimate two weeks after paying the deposit). The work included adding a socket in the kitchen for a fridge and a fused spur for an outside light.

Last week the electrician came along to survey the site and left saying .....

You either need a new consumer unit (330 quid) or an additional consumer unit box just for the new boiler (160 quid). No one else has mentioned the electrics needed upgrading when providing quotes for the job. The house was build in 1989 and uses the existing fuse wire consumer unit. About 8 years ago a shower was added, this uses a MCB and i've got a MCB on the ring main circuit. I don't have any free spaces on the existing consumer unit - although surely he could re-use the immersion heater 'slot' which already has a cable to almost the right place & the floor is being lifted between the immersion and the boiler.

Does it sound like i'm being taken for a mug or do you need a separate feed just for the boiler? Perhaps another way of asking this is .... why would my dad who's had the same work done 6 months ago in a similar house not need the fuse box upgrading?

If I do get the consumer unit replaced - how do i know he's doing a good job? What should he do before / during / after replacing the consumer unit? How long should it take?

 

[Chri5]

He is using the 17th ed requirement for rcd protection and earth bonding of the gas and water services as an 'excuse' to push you towards an update.

Tell them to quote for an RCBO to replace the kitchen mcb (material cost about £35) and thus the kitchen circuit will comply, as will the 3a fused spur off a kitchen socket that can be used for the boiler feed.

If he has to run 10mm bonding earths from CU / main earth terminal for property, then that cost will depend on the distance of cabling run (both need to be run to within 600mm of the main gas meter and the water stop cock).

 

[miker7]

The house was built in 1989 - it doesn't have a separate kitchen MCB. I just have a ring main that has everything on it. I do have a cooker circuit that is separate on the CU.

I think what you're suggesting is the 160 pound option he gave me.

 

[ColJack]

are those total prices or additionals for the CU?

 

[miker7]

I believe totals - there was no suggestion that i need to buy bits on top of the extra 330 or 160.

i'm just worried that the additional charge has appeared and i'm being ripped off + if he does the job how do i know he's doing a good job / doing what he's supposed too.

edited to add, the 330 or 160 is on top of the price to fit the boiler which included the electrical work for doing that, and this wasn't the cheapest quote i had.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Tell them to quote for an RCBO to replace the kitchen mcb.

... the existing fuse wire consumer unit....

I'm having my boiler upgraded to a vaillant combi and moved about 8 feet along the kitchen wall....The work included adding a socket in the kitchen for a fridge and a fused spur for an outside light.

To comply with the current wiring regulations, that socket needs to be RCD protected, as does any new concealed cabling.

The socket could be sorted by making it an RCD one, but concealed cables would require your CU to be replaced, or a 2nd one to be added, or a separate enclosure with just an RCD installed.

£330 does not seem outrageous for the former (quite good, really), nor £160 for the latter.

I don't have any free spaces on the existing consumer unit - although surely he could re-use the immersion heater 'slot' which already has a cable to almost the right place & the floor is being lifted between the immersion and the boiler.

You can't get plug-in RCBOs, so using, or not, existing slots in your old CU is only part of the problem.

Does it sound like i'm being taken for a mug or do you need a separate feed just for the boiler?

If moving the boiler has resulted in new concealed cables then you need to find a way to put RCD protection on them. It may be that a separate circuit for it is the quickest and easiest way, but that would not address the issue of the new socket.

Perhaps another way of asking this is .... why would my dad who's had the same work done 6 months ago in a similar house not need the fuse box upgrading?

Maybe he already had RCD protection.

Maybe he didn't have any new sockets or end up with new concealed cables.

Maybe he's the one who was taken for a mug.

If I do get the consumer unit replaced - how do i know he's doing a good job?

With difficulty. Word of mouth, references etc are, as always, the best way to find a reputable tradesman, but if you're having to go ahead without much in the way of those, or references, don't put any store by registration itself - sadly it is possible to become registered with woefully inadequate qualifications and zero practical experience. You don't have to spend long here to see people cropping up who are registered and "qualified", but who are clearly seriously incompetent in reality and who should not be charging for their services.

It's your money, £'000s of it, and you have every right to ask prospective tradesmen what their qualifications are. Just being listed here is not a good enough guide. No genuinely experienced electrician, with the "full set" of C&G qualifications will mind you asking - in fact he will wish that everyone was like you.

I feel sorry for people who have been misled by training organisations and (shamefully) the Competent Person scheme organisers into thinking that a 5-day training course, a couple of trivial examples of their work and some basic understanding of how to use test equipment will make them an electrician, but not sorry enough to agree with them trying to sell their services to Joe Public.

What should he do before / during / after replacing the consumer unit?

Test the existing circuits, before and after.

How long should it take?

Depends on whether the testing highlights any problems.

 

[LiamPope]

Hi MikeR fancy seeing you here Thought you might have got it sorted already.

I think with some photos of your existing meter/fuseboard location, the folks on here would have a better understanding of your existing installation, and therefore the requirements of the new work. As said, when i was giving you some advice on LCB I was making various assumptions. It would be better if we knew exactly what you're dealing with.

Dont worry - though LCB is indeed the font of all knowledge, you're in even better hands here with these particular questions

Liam

 

[Johnmelad502]

Hi MikeR fancy seeing you here Thought you might have got it sorted already.

I think with some photos of your existing meter/fuseboard location, the folks on here would have a better understanding of your existing installation, and therefore the requirements of the new work. As said, when i was giving you some advice on LCB I was making various assumptions. It would be better if we knew exactly what you're dealing with.

Dont worry - though LCB is indeed the font of all knowledge, you're in even better hands here with these particular questions

Liam

LCB, London Commuter Belt

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[miker7]

Thanks for the help guys,

LCB = www.locostbuilders.co.uk, its a site for people building their own cars. Lots of people build cars from kits, but lots of others (me included) are building them from scratch. It does seem that almost any question can be asked on that forum and an answer is given. We solved the question that gave the answer 42 the other month!

Cheers, Mike

 

[skenk]

An RCD spur unit could be used to supply the boiler:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...tected_Range/RCD_Protected_Range_2/index.html

If the fridge socket is labelled there is no need for it to be on RCD although any new concealed cabling would have to be unless ali-tube or mechanically protected.