Downlights with or without transformers

[macadonald]

Hi guys,

Will run this past an electrician today, but thought I'd check on the forum anyway. As part of my renovation, I am installign new downlights through all of downstairs. I have planned 4 per room of 3m x 3m, which I hope will be enough?

Is it best to use seperate downlights and seperate transformers? I know you can buy downlights that have integrated transformers.

Cheers

Mac

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As part of my renovation, I am installign new downlights through all of downstairs.

If you mean 2" diameter ones I would strongly urge you to reconsider.

That type of light originated in the retail/display market, and they are designed to highlight, or spot light, individual items or small areas. That's why they are often called spotlights.

They are actually deliberately designed to not light up large spaces, in other words they are deliberately designed to be fundamentally unsuitable for general room illumination.

It would be like trying to light your rooms with torches fixed to the ceilings...

I have planned 4 per room of 3m x 3m, which I hope will be enough?

Small ones?

No chance.

 

[macadonald]

Thanks for the reply. Any chace you could give me a pointer as to which downlights I should be using?

Regards

Mac

 

[Johnmelad]

Thanks for the reply. Any chace you could give me a pointer as to which downlights I should be using?

Regards

Mac

 

[SaladFingers]

I don't understand why people go for 12v lights for lighting rooms.

To have the same light output as a 240v light, you need to consume more power, then there's even more power used in losses that the transformer will have been designed to compensate for to give 35w or 50w to the lamp.

 

[macadonald]

Okay, sorry I might be confused myslef here. I am definately referrign to the 24oV downlights, which I am pretty sure are suitable for lighting rooms. Correct me if I'm wrong please?

Lookign through a catalogue, I think I may be confused with some 240V downlights requiring transformers and others not.

In short, am I okay to use 24oV downlights to light my rooms and if transformers are required?

thanks

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Transformers are required for ELV (Extra Low Voltage (Up to 50V)).

Transformers are not required for LV (Low Voltage (Up to 1000V)).

 

[Aragorn84]

240v downlights do not require transformers.

12v downlights do.

Neither are all that suitable for lighting rooms, and are horribly inefficient. You go from needing one single 20w CFL on a pendant fitting in a typical lounge, to requiring something like 200-400w of halogen downlights.

You can use LED's, but as i've recently found out for myself, the LED's tend to have an even narrower beam, meaning the horrible lighting distribution you get from downlights is made even worse.

I'm having to put up with it, as its a rented house and i cant change the fittings, and i figured if i'm stuck with them i might as well have 36w of crappy LED lighting rather than 300w of crappy halogen!

 

[Iggifer]

You can use LED's, but as i've recently found out for myself, the LED's tend to have an even narrower beam, meaning the horrible lighting distribution you get from downlights is made even worse

Total fallacy. If you have 25D lamps then yes, you will have terrible light spread. I have some 36D ones that aren't bad, 40D are even better.

Don't taint all LED's with the 'they're rubbish' brush, because they are not.

 

[Iggifer]

double post

 

[Aragorn84]

You can use LED's, but as i've recently found out for myself, the LED's tend to have an even narrower beam, meaning the horrible lighting distribution you get from downlights is made even worse

Total fallacy. If you have 25D lamps then yes, you will have terrible light spread. I have some 36D ones that aren't bad, 40D are even better.

Don't taint all LED's with the 'they're rubbish' brush, because they are not.

Mine were claimed to be 35 iirc, which is the same as that of most typical GU10's

However while the beam might well cover 35 degrees, it doesnt cover it evenly, the centre is a lot brighter than the outsides, meaning there are much more noticable marked steps than there were with the GU10's

They could just be rubbish LED's ofcourse, they were fairly cheap, but i'm not spending £30-40 per lamp on high end LED's when for that money i could rip out the downlights, patch up the ceiling and fit a decent T5 fluro fitting.

It doesnt change the fact that they're both crap, just makes the crapness a little better to live with when its only consuming 36w rather than 300.

 

[Iggifer]

You don't need to spend £35-40, the Philips MyAmbience range (if they still do them) cost me like £7 a lamp for 4w 2700K and the spread is as good as halogen

 

[macadonald]

Okay, very confused now after those posts. I hadn't thought of using LED, purely down to the cost. Was going to use 240V downlights (I now know without transformers).

Basically, we have a standard 3 bed end of terrace house. Downstairs is an entrance area with hallway. There is a front room and back room, that have been knocked through and now we are building an extension on the back. Basically a single storey box.

I had thought to do down lights throughout downstairs, but after the posts above, I wonder if that is best - both in terms of efficiency and lighting. I'm beginning to think that the entrance, front room/backroom, may be better suited with central lights and perhaps just the extension (kitchen dinner) should have downlights. I'm liking this idea now

Any thoughts based on what you sparkies out there have installed/lived with? We are not a modern new build, so the living room may be better with a nice central dimmer light?

Cheers guys

 

[SaladFingers]

It's always amused me, how the government banned the 60w or 100w incandescent light bulb, of which one were more than adequate to illuminate a room, yet people are encouraged to be throwing 500w to 1000w of light to illuminate a room by using these spot lights.

 

[HalfEatenFlapjack]

I have just put down lights in my house, and spent AGES dithering over how many/how powerful/what type.

My conclusions, based on my own recent but limited experience:

How many:I put 7 x 35W halogen in my 4m x 2m kitchen (which also has under cupboard lights, and a light in the cooker hood). It’s workable, but I’m upgrading to 50W as I prefer more light in the kitchen.
As a rough guide, if the lights are 600mm-1000mm apart you should be OK (and 600mm min from the wall). If it’s too bright, you can fit a dimmer. In a 3m x 3m room, I would want at least 9, and possibly 12. If you don’t fancy the idea of 12, in a non-kitchen area, you have a bit more flexibility as you have the option of additional table lamps etc.

12v or 240v: I can see no advantage to 12v – the transformer uses as much power as a 240v bulb, and the transformers keep packing in and needing replacing.

LED or halogen: LED are pricey, especially if you want dimmable ones, and even the ‘warm tone’ lights don’t give a very nice light. I’m not convinced that the technology is quite ‘there’ yet for domestic applications. Halogens do get hot. You need a good 10-15cm clear around them in the ceiling void.

Fittings: GU10 are the ones you want – almost ubiquitous, and more robust.

Power: Like I say, I’ve used 35W equivalent (28W) halogens. OK in the dining room/hall (which also has a pendant light), a bit dim in the kitchen. At £1.99 from BLT Direct I figured it was a fairly low-risk gamble.