Dr Andrew Wakefield and the MMR vaccine
- Thread starter gasbanni
- Start date
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http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/benefits-and-risks.aspx
This should be about your level.
This should be about your level.
Please show me where I said that was proof you cretin.
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Yet again showing your limited intelligence by your in ability to construct a proper response , i will let you be .
I learned years ago never to argue with a fool as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
I learned years ago never to argue with a fool as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
I'm sure you will reply to this, as trolls always want to have the last word. Hope your kids pr grandkids don't die of measles! Xx
When you want to know about vaccines and bad science, you can always trust Ben Goldacre. Legend!
http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/
http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/
Great website. Really recommend all 3 of his books as well. Really interesting reads.
[Built in irony detector just exploded]
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Wow a serious thread topic and I'm accused of trolling etc etc.
There is one very serious question that is raised and you've got to ask why.
For any of you that are prepared to consider this without a emotional preconceived opinion please read on.
Instead of all the links to posts etc etc let's go back to his original paper in the lancet.
Authored by 13 people.
Have you read it ? I doubt the detractors have, for the simple reason he does not say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.....
Thats correct he doesn't say the MMR vaccine causes autism.
He may have that opinion now.
The one in the lancet that was retracted is there to read.
It's all there, when you read it its very temperate, very mild in its tone.
He was approached by parents who were convinced that the vaccine had caused autism in their children.
There's a chart that shows the children were developing normally and after the vaccine there was a regression, this information was provided by parents.
The sad facts must have been harrowing for the parents.
Quote:
"Interpretation
We identified associated gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in a group of previously normal children, which was generally associated in time with possible environmental triggers."
Unquote.
The autism caused gastric problems hence Wakefield as that was his area of expertise.
What he found was the measles virus in the gut that was the same strain as the one used in the vaccine not the wild virus that you would catch if you got measles.
He never claimed that he knew the mechanism of how the vaccine caused brain problems.
What he did say later was that he knew gut problems could affect the brain. As an example of how substances in the gut could effect the brain, He stated that if he drank beer it quickly affected his brain.
I can confirm that.
All his paper said at the conclusion was he believed environmental issues were causing autism.
He states " We did not prove an association between measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue."
In summary he's saying gut problems maybe related to brain problems, the onset of brain problems occured in most cases after MMR immunisation.
All he said was we need to look to see if there's a link.
Here's a link to his original paper ~
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)11096-0/fulltext
There's two questions that to my mind are raised bigger than the article.
One far more serious than the other.
On a seperate note
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ker-smith-wins-high-court-appeal-7543114.html
Quote:
The judge criticised the disciplinary panel's "inadequate and superficial reasoning and, in a number of instances, a wrong conclusion".
Unquote.
His name is on the link as an author of the paper vindicated in court.
Maybe this also applies to Andrew Wakefield
Andrew Wakefield clearly stated he hadn't proved a link, others cannot disprove there is a link despite what they may claim.
As for me too many parents have harrowing stories of their normally developing children then an absolute nightmare that they have gone through as a result they believe of the MMR jab.
That's good enough for me. Irrespective of what any including Andrew wakefield in the medical profession may say. The stories are the stuff of nightmares.
There is one very serious question that is raised and you've got to ask why.
For any of you that are prepared to consider this without a emotional preconceived opinion please read on.
Instead of all the links to posts etc etc let's go back to his original paper in the lancet.
Authored by 13 people.
Have you read it ? I doubt the detractors have, for the simple reason he does not say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.....
Thats correct he doesn't say the MMR vaccine causes autism.
He may have that opinion now.
The one in the lancet that was retracted is there to read.
It's all there, when you read it its very temperate, very mild in its tone.
He was approached by parents who were convinced that the vaccine had caused autism in their children.
There's a chart that shows the children were developing normally and after the vaccine there was a regression, this information was provided by parents.
The sad facts must have been harrowing for the parents.
Quote:
"Interpretation
We identified associated gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in a group of previously normal children, which was generally associated in time with possible environmental triggers."
Unquote.
The autism caused gastric problems hence Wakefield as that was his area of expertise.
What he found was the measles virus in the gut that was the same strain as the one used in the vaccine not the wild virus that you would catch if you got measles.
He never claimed that he knew the mechanism of how the vaccine caused brain problems.
What he did say later was that he knew gut problems could affect the brain. As an example of how substances in the gut could effect the brain, He stated that if he drank beer it quickly affected his brain.
I can confirm that.
All his paper said at the conclusion was he believed environmental issues were causing autism.
He states " We did not prove an association between measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue."
In summary he's saying gut problems maybe related to brain problems, the onset of brain problems occured in most cases after MMR immunisation.
All he said was we need to look to see if there's a link.
Here's a link to his original paper ~
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)11096-0/fulltext
There's two questions that to my mind are raised bigger than the article.
One far more serious than the other.
On a seperate note
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ker-smith-wins-high-court-appeal-7543114.html
Quote:
The judge criticised the disciplinary panel's "inadequate and superficial reasoning and, in a number of instances, a wrong conclusion".
Unquote.
His name is on the link as an author of the paper vindicated in court.
Maybe this also applies to Andrew Wakefield
Andrew Wakefield clearly stated he hadn't proved a link, others cannot disprove there is a link despite what they may claim.
As for me too many parents have harrowing stories of their normally developing children then an absolute nightmare that they have gone through as a result they believe of the MMR jab.
That's good enough for me. Irrespective of what any including Andrew wakefield in the medical profession may say. The stories are the stuff of nightmares.
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Your ignored as of now as I don't wish to engage in any kind of debate with you, I could say it's a waste of time but I wouldn't mean it.
What I really mean is your a waste of time.
interesting to know that gasbaggi thinks that correlation is the same thing as causation.
For example, Autism diagnosis is clearly correlated with lots of things. So Gasbaggi thinks that organic food causes Autism diagnoses to rise. Or maybe GMOs. Or Glyphosate.
He may not be aware that Diagnosis count is not the same as prevalence. When you don't look for something, you don't find it. When you do look for it, you do.
https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ot-vaccines-gmos-glyphosate-or-organic-foods/
Perhaps he is unaware that Autism diagnoses in Japan continued to rise after MMR was discontinued (this is very widely known by people interested in Wakefield's scare).
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/nommr.html
the speaker that gasbaggi agrees with thinks that there are not older people with Autism. Clearly he has never worked in IT development or seen ex-Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
interesting to know that gasbaggi thinks that correlation is the same thing as causation.
For example, Autism diagnosis is clearly correlated with lots of things. So Gasbaggi thinks that organic food causes Autism diagnoses to rise. Or maybe GMOs. Or Glyphosate.
He may not be aware that Diagnosis count is not the same as prevalence. When you don't look for something, you don't find it. When you do look for it, you do.
https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ot-vaccines-gmos-glyphosate-or-organic-foods/
Perhaps he is unaware that Autism diagnoses in Japan continued to rise after MMR was discontinued (this is very widely known by people interested in Wakefield's scare).
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/nommr.html
the speaker that gasbaggi agrees with thinks that there are not older people with Autism. Clearly he has never worked in IT development or seen ex-Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Understood, but autism is increasing and I would not like to live in a society where autism is considered an inevitability.
The fact that Japan's autism rates have not declined despite them not trialling the vaccine is of no consolation or assurance to me, because evidence shows autism rates have been increasing worldwide, year on year, so for all we spend on vaccinations it doesn't seem to be doing us much good, does it ?
If I was a concerned parent (god forbid) I would choose not to have my child vaccinated, not because I understand the science, but because there are an ever increasing number of unhealthy, diseased and retarded adults and children in society, all dependant on pharmaceutical support, and the health authorities don't seem to understand why autism rates are increasing, yet they are often overly keen to throw expensive treatments at them (which often just mask or reduce symptoms) This should send alarm bells ringing.
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