eletrics ok
- Thread starter markie
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Yep.markie said:
I have read with great interest a lot of posts regarding DIY electrics and understand that it is now illegal to tamper with any installation, with the exception of minor jobs like socket fronts and fancy switches.
My question is this, If this is the case, why do you sparky's still offer advice ? surely you are all doing your selves out of work ? And yes before anyone mentions it, i have dabbled a little myself. I have just built an extension all by myself and never had one problem with BCO, BUT i was angered to find i wasn't allowed to install a ring for 4 plug sockets fit 2 ceiling lights and 2 switches in the new build.
Ok not every DIY mad responsible person is capable of doing this but surely on the first fix while most of the cabling is visible whats wrong with DIYing it yourself so long as you know what you are doing and getting the BCO guy to take a look... I think if they bring out new laws like the part P then they should employ the services of a qualified elec to check your work at a REASONABLE cost. I found out that i may as well just get a spark to do the full job cause he will charge the same to test as to install..
Does that sound reasonable ? or are you all going to bring me down off my soapbox in a shower of flames
My question is this, If this is the case, why do you sparky's still offer advice ? surely you are all doing your selves out of work ? And yes before anyone mentions it, i have dabbled a little myself. I have just built an extension all by myself and never had one problem with BCO, BUT i was angered to find i wasn't allowed to install a ring for 4 plug sockets fit 2 ceiling lights and 2 switches in the new build.
Ok not every DIY mad responsible person is capable of doing this but surely on the first fix while most of the cabling is visible whats wrong with DIYing it yourself so long as you know what you are doing and getting the BCO guy to take a look... I think if they bring out new laws like the part P then they should employ the services of a qualified elec to check your work at a REASONABLE cost. I found out that i may as well just get a spark to do the full job cause he will charge the same to test as to install..
Does that sound reasonable ? or are you all going to bring me down off my soapbox in a shower of flames
Ok Mick, get your hands in the air, and step down of the soapbox.......lol
A lot of poeple are in a muddle regarding Part P, and a lot will still be in a years time......there is still a lot of false information flying around to confuse poeple.
I will try and explain some of it.........but even I can`t guarantee im totally correct as fortunately only a small percentage of my work is domestic.
Firstly it is not illegal for you to carry out any electrical work in your house, as long as you notify (and pay) building control prior to commencing the work (notifiable works this is).
The ring main you mentioned would be notifiable if it was a new circuit, but not notifiable if you break into an exisiting ring main (as long as it`s not broken into within the kitchen).
The lighting circuit is the same, non notifiable if extending an existing, notifiable if a new circuit.
Your best bet if you want to put them on their own circuits (from my point of view) would be to carry out the work yourself after informing the LABC what you intended. They will then check the work at 1st fix stage, before ceilings etc are up, this is now where I`m confused, I thought if you paid the fee`s to the LABC, they then had to get somebody to check the work out for you???
Ok.......So now I`m on the soapbox awaiting to be shot down.lol.
A lot of poeple are in a muddle regarding Part P, and a lot will still be in a years time......there is still a lot of false information flying around to confuse poeple.
I will try and explain some of it.........but even I can`t guarantee im totally correct as fortunately only a small percentage of my work is domestic.
Firstly it is not illegal for you to carry out any electrical work in your house, as long as you notify (and pay) building control prior to commencing the work (notifiable works this is).
The ring main you mentioned would be notifiable if it was a new circuit, but not notifiable if you break into an exisiting ring main (as long as it`s not broken into within the kitchen).
The lighting circuit is the same, non notifiable if extending an existing, notifiable if a new circuit.
Your best bet if you want to put them on their own circuits (from my point of view) would be to carry out the work yourself after informing the LABC what you intended. They will then check the work at 1st fix stage, before ceilings etc are up, this is now where I`m confused, I thought if you paid the fee`s to the LABC, they then had to get somebody to check the work out for you???
Ok.......So now I`m on the soapbox awaiting to be shot down.lol.
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The I fear you've read the wrong ones, or misunderstood what you have read, for it is not illegal.Mick Leek said:
I guess firstly, because it isn't illegal, and secondly because they would rather see someone do the job safely than any other consideration. I always liken it to the situation with underage sex. It may be wrong, but it's going to happen anyway, so refusing to provide eduction, advice and contraception is a Bad Idea™.
You were allowed to do that, but probably by the time you found out that your LABC was telling you you couldn't it was too late to find out the truth and fight them.
Absolutely nothing, and that is the way it is supposed to work.
That is what they are supposed to do, and the cost is what you pay the fee to them for, so if it's part of more extensive building works it is supposed to be included in the cost.
That's what most LABCs want you to do, so they make it extraordinarily difficult for you to do anything else, despite you being allowed to.
Probably, given that it's already been a year since it came into effect, and some people still don't understand it.colport27 said:
Including, for example, the things that Mick was saying above.
That's all correct.
They are supposed to. Many (most?) will not.
The most recent version of my summary.
. .
. .
. .
At the end of the day it's all to do with cowboys doing eletrics, or diy,ers
and the gov to make money.
Part P = £ for brown,
and the gov to make money.
Part P = £ for brown,
Cheers guys,
That wasnt to bad. I was expecting someone to take my trousers down and give me a good telling off for my comments
Colport, am i reading this correctly, IF and i mean IF i were to simply interupt the exsisiting down stairs ring, then extend to the new build (its only a single storey extension) then continue the ring then that is OK ?
One thing i should mention is that there will also be a utillity room. Does this come under the same clasification as the kitchen rule ? I also have to install an extractor fan in the utillity, not a problem, but also provide a fused spur for that...
Ban, i have tried to understand the part p but i cant find information on it. I know you guys wont like me saying this but i was thinking of trying to train up a little on electrics (domestic only) to gain a qualification and look at doing the part p. How would i go about doing this ? Is it a case of 3 years at college ( to old for that) or can you train along side an already qualified spark.
Dont wory guys i do know quite a lot about electronics. I design computorised firing systems for explosives and firework companies. One of the things i make is a 400V shrike capable of firing 25 individual circuits seperatly but only using 3 conductors, so a ring main doesnt really pose to much problem for me.
Thanks for all the info so far guys.
That wasnt to bad. I was expecting someone to take my trousers down and give me a good telling off for my comments
Colport, am i reading this correctly, IF and i mean IF i were to simply interupt the exsisiting down stairs ring, then extend to the new build (its only a single storey extension) then continue the ring then that is OK ?
One thing i should mention is that there will also be a utillity room. Does this come under the same clasification as the kitchen rule ? I also have to install an extractor fan in the utillity, not a problem, but also provide a fused spur for that...
Ban, i have tried to understand the part p but i cant find information on it. I know you guys wont like me saying this but i was thinking of trying to train up a little on electrics (domestic only) to gain a qualification and look at doing the part p. How would i go about doing this ? Is it a case of 3 years at college ( to old for that) or can you train along side an already qualified spark.
Dont wory guys i do know quite a lot about electronics. I design computorised firing systems for explosives and firework companies. One of the things i make is a 400V shrike capable of firing 25 individual circuits seperatly but only using 3 conductors, so a ring main doesnt really pose to much problem for me.
Thanks for all the info so far guys.
Hi Mick, if you click on the link that Ban All Sheds put in his last post in this thread you will find it pretty helpful.
The entire Part P document is online, but it`s 40 something pages long and takes some reading/understanding.
In answer to your last questions, Yes you can extend the existing ring main (this is not notifiable works, as long as you don`t touch the ring within the kitchen). This is where some people think Part P is a little.er....daft. Say for instance all your sockets on the ground floor are on the one ring main, it is not notifiable to extend the ring from say a socket in the lounge.............yet it is notfiable if you extend the ring from say a socket the opposite side of the wall in the kitchen.
A utility room is non notifiable (on the presumption it doesnt have food preparation facilities). I guess by that comment a utility room with food preparation facilties becomes a kitchen???
One part I myself find even more daft than the above comment, it is not notifiable to upgrade or install main equipotential bonding as long as it`s not in the kitchen or bathroom.
So if your water main comes up under the stairs for instance you can put a main bond to it, but if it comes up in the kitchen or bathroom you cant without notifying it. The electrical circuits etc within kitchens/bathrooms I can understand but why include the installation of an earth wire in this?
The entire Part P document is online, but it`s 40 something pages long and takes some reading/understanding.
In answer to your last questions, Yes you can extend the existing ring main (this is not notifiable works, as long as you don`t touch the ring within the kitchen). This is where some people think Part P is a little.er....daft. Say for instance all your sockets on the ground floor are on the one ring main, it is not notifiable to extend the ring from say a socket in the lounge.............yet it is notfiable if you extend the ring from say a socket the opposite side of the wall in the kitchen.
A utility room is non notifiable (on the presumption it doesnt have food preparation facilities). I guess by that comment a utility room with food preparation facilties becomes a kitchen???
One part I myself find even more daft than the above comment, it is not notifiable to upgrade or install main equipotential bonding as long as it`s not in the kitchen or bathroom.
So if your water main comes up under the stairs for instance you can put a main bond to it, but if it comes up in the kitchen or bathroom you cant without notifying it. The electrical circuits etc within kitchens/bathrooms I can understand but why include the installation of an earth wire in this?
Cheers colport
That is very interesting regarding extending the ring main. Am i correct in assuming the kitchen ring is seperate from the remainder of the downstairs plugs then ?
In addition, what about lighting in the kitchen ? i mean is it notifiable if you simple fit spot lights instead of the single lamp ?
What about lights ? Is it also ok to add a radial to the new lights required ?
I hadnt noticed bans link to the part p documents... thanks for pointing that out to me.
Mick
That is very interesting regarding extending the ring main. Am i correct in assuming the kitchen ring is seperate from the remainder of the downstairs plugs then ?
In addition, what about lighting in the kitchen ? i mean is it notifiable if you simple fit spot lights instead of the single lamp ?
What about lights ? Is it also ok to add a radial to the new lights required ?
I hadnt noticed bans link to the part p documents... thanks for pointing that out to me.
Mick
Sorry Mick, I think you misunderstood me a little (or I didnt explain it right?). I was saying if all sockets on the ground floor were one circuit (including kitchen). You can break into the ring anywhere but the kitchen (or other special locations) so my point earlier was that two sockets, one in the lounge, one in the kitchen.......same circuit.....you are allowed to break into the lounge one, but not the kitchen (yeah I know, daft?).
Any work (spot lights you mentioned) within in a kitchen is notifiable work.
You can extend the existing lighting circuit, as long as you extend it from anywhere but a special location (kitchen bathroom etc).
Any work (spot lights you mentioned) within in a kitchen is notifiable work.
You can extend the existing lighting circuit, as long as you extend it from anywhere but a special location (kitchen bathroom etc).
Think i have conffuesed myself now
What i meant was following, If dowstairs sockets are on a seperate ring from the kitchen ones them am i OK to add sockets to new extension without touching the kitchen ring... what i meant by asking if kitchen was on a seperate ring was then i dont have to touch it.
cheers
What i meant was following, If dowstairs sockets are on a seperate ring from the kitchen ones them am i OK to add sockets to new extension without touching the kitchen ring... what i meant by asking if kitchen was on a seperate ring was then i dont have to touch it.
cheers
Mick Leek said:
Sorry when I read that, I thought you were asking me if your kitchen was on a different circuit to the rest of the downstairs sockets?
If you already have two ring mains downstairs, one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the ground floor then yes you can extend the latter into the extension.
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edited to correct quote
colport27, click the edit button to see how it is done
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