Evidence found - they've been doing the vaccine injections wrongly?

[IT Minion]

So
what?

There is a reason aspiration is not recommended or taught as a routine process anymore. It hurts. When the goal is to get the most injections into people as possible you have to reduce the barriers as much as possible.

Also, your supposition that the needles might not be compatible is potentially a barrier. If we're just wildly guessing then the balance between using needles and syringes that can get five or six doses from a vial, which we are now, might be more important than using one that can only get four.

 

[Notch7]

So
effin
what?
You wouldn't wear a crash helmet because it MIGHT not save you a head injury? What sort of a xxxx would say that?

Every analysis you try is bogus - like whether one guy's papers were counted in accordance with your notion, which you used to criticise me for not knowing what a paper was. YOU know better than Researchgate? What sort of childishness is that? It's irrelevant anyway. Really shows your motives.

Every muscle has blood vessels supplying it. It doesn't matter what the muscle is, but some have more than others.
You want to look for a muscle with a smaller chance of getting the vaccine into blood?
That's like saying a car that doesn't have brakes could be tried on smaller roads. No, it needs brakes.
So, you don't know how muscles work. They get energy from ... oh yeah, blood. A 12 year old could work that out. Give us strength - there's another of your irrelevant ejaculations showing your ignorance and urge to post something even if it's crap.

Sure we can all miss something which is part of "discussion" but almost every single post you make is a "basic mistake", of knowledge, of attitude, of motive, of logic, of zero effort. Just junk. And you're doing it on purpose.
Troll.

It is you that throwing out ad hominem attacks - a clear indication of someone who has not got a clearly defined or valid counter argument.

let’s be clear, your post says IT minion is wrong, but you don’t state where or why.

You make some interesting points but it’s spoilt by your anger, please try and debate politely then your posts carry more weight.

 

[JP_]

Every muscle has blood vessels supplying it. It doesn't matter what the muscle is, but some have more than others.

The reason why we inject into deltoid muscles, is to:

a) avoid hitting veins which are large enough for the needle to penetrate
b) allow rapid dispersal of the vaccine through the blood

As said before, needles are sized to be larger than the small blood vessels in the muscles.

NHS says it is safe, nurses say it is safe, statistics on vaccinations (all, not just covid) say it is safe.

Maybe write to the health secretary with your concerns rather than swear at people on a DIY forum ...

 

[ajohn]

It's just another smoking gun. I noticed a certain amount of amusement from one person in the video and no signs what so ever of his results. I wonder why. Probably lack of proof that there is a problem.

 

[JP_]

Yeah. The people complaining about this don't seem to grasp that without blood vessels the vaccine won't go anywhere.
The proximity of blood vessels is vital in delivering the vaccine. Just not veins, which are easy to miss if you are injecting into the deltoid muscle.

 

[Justin Passing]

There is a reason aspiration is not recommended or taught as a routine process anymore. It hurts. When the goal is to get the most injections into people as possible you have to reduce the barriers as much as possible.

I already posted that it can cause pain, only a prvlem with small kids according to what I read. Quicker is acknowledged.
Again you add nothing.
Whether it's routinely taught I don't know or care. I can name a few things which are injected I-M But would be highly dangerous if they went into a vein, so it must be taught. Can you? As said, ask a dentist.
Yes pain is inconvenient. Are you suggesting that if it proves necessary to aspirate in order to reduce severe illness and death, it's not worth doing? I imagine not.
So you aren't saying anything either.

Also, your supposition that the needles might not be compatible is potentially a barrier.

I didn't say anything about needles.
Stop making things up.

If we're just wildly guessing then the balance between using needles and syringes that can get five or six doses from a vial, which we are now, might be more important than using one that can only get four.

I don't know what you're guessing. How should anyone know what nonsense had popped into your head?
Are you suggesting that a few pence on the hardware - or less in quantity- is not worth spending if it avoids illness and a few deaths?

I imagine not.
So there's another junk post of nothing, from the same person who keeps doing it but we aren't allowed to criticize because that's ad hominem..

 

[Justin Passing]

It is you that throwing out ad hominem attacks - a clear indication of someone who has not got a clearly defined or valid counter argument.

let’s be clear, your post says IT minion is wrong, but you don’t state where or why.

You make some interesting points but it’s spoilt by your anger, please try and debate politely then your posts carry more weight.

If the same person keeps posting to claim A) rubbish and B) with no evidence which C) is probably irrelevant anyway,
then NO I don't see I need to supply referenced rebuttals.

I patiently answered most of his accusation-laden junk posts with explanations. But then he tries to argue on the basis of his opinion on Researchgate's count of someone's papers; he's shown his hand.
We then know how to think of the person. As someone of no value in a discussion.
He's made a number of other equally revealing posts.

 

[noseall]

Give it up Justin, no one is remotely convinced by your lack of links or evidence.

 

[Justin Passing]

The reason why we inject into deltoid muscles, is to:

a) avoid hitting veins which are large enough for the needle to penetrate
b) allow rapid dispersal of the vaccine through the blood

As said before, needles are sized to be larger than the small blood vessels in the muscles.

NHS says it is safe, nurses say it is safe, statistics on vaccinations (all, not just covid) say it is safe.

Maybe write to the health secretary with your concerns rather than swear at people on a DIY forum ...

Deltoid:
a)

Nobody is disputing the reason for injecting into deltoid muscle. It REDUCES the chance of vaccine directly entering the bloodstream directly, and has other usual benefits.
Normally it doesn't matter about entering bloodstream - that we know of. How often do we have millions of cases to examine.
A problem has come to light, that vaccine entering bloodstream appears to cause a problem that we have been seeing. It was suggested as a possibility based on knowledge and experience, and found to be true in mice which adds weight, wouldn't you say?
(There's also the case(s) cited where someone tasted something immediately which is a sign of an injection entering the bloodstream, and he has the damage. It would be worth asking more victims.)

So the simple choice of injection site MAY NOT avoid the problem.
I don't see what's complicated about that.


b)
I don't remember if I've read an explanation from mfrs on that. The muscle is well supplied with blood vessels but if you WANTED the jizzm to enter the bloodstream rapidly you'd go I-V.
Using the muscle is a generally, away to let it get into "the system" slowly. But not as slowly as S-C which has other problems
You seem to have missed the point that if you don't go into the bloodstream the vaccine goes into interstitial spaces and through a number of lymph nodes, which it meets a lot of the dendritic calls they bang on about.

Reference please for "sized to be larger than the small blood vessels in the muscles."??
Nobody is suggesting that the needle has to get into the blood in a specific mechanical way. The needle obviously ruptures whatever it passes through, the liquid comes out at high pressure and is constrained to some extent by the surrounding material.. Nobody has specified how much vaccine would be a problem. The suggestion of "hitting a blood vessel" would obviously qualify and is a sort of shorthand. It's making a little straw man to suggest "you're saying exactly this will happen, and it can't possibly because" then add claims which aren't supported.


"NHS says it is safe, nurses say it is safe, statistics on vaccinations (all, not just covid) say it is safe."
No, no, no, and no.
Did they have the results of millions of test cases when they said that? NO. Would they readily admit it and change policy? Probably not, there would be resistance on the basis of cost and convenience and the political impact. Nobody claims the jabs are "safe" - not an appropriate use of the word. Statistics on vaccinations do not say it's safe, they say the benefit is worth the risk.


"Maybe write to the health secretary with your concerns rather than swear at people on a DIY forum ..."
Nadim Zahawi (sp?) said there is no evidence. Well no shít Sherlock, look for it.
This is a forum where everything is discussed in the appropriate subforum.

I don't se why the issue can't be discussed without it being one where some people think it's ok to post groundless and provocative junk. They need swearing at!

I'm not a source here other than for common knowledge stuff easily found.
All I'm saying is that there is a case to answer.

 

[Justin Passing]

It's just another smoking gun. I noticed a certain amount of amusement from one person in the video and no signs what so ever of his results. I wonder why. Probably lack of proof that there is a problem.

So did I. I think he was laughing at Campbell's obvious excitement. Campbell has imho raised a valid question, but he's gone well beyond rigor. That doesn't invalidate the question, but it does make him look silly

 

[Justin Passing]

Yeah. The people complaining about this don't seem to grasp that without blood vessels the vaccine won't go anywhere.
The proximity of blood vessels is vital in delivering the vaccine. Just not veins, which are easy to miss if you are injecting into the deltoid muscle.

Not quite, IF the vaccine heads off into the lymphatic system, see above,..... it's processed, before it hits the bloodstream. How complete or critical that is, is an important thing that's nobody claims to fully understand.

 

[Justin Passing]

Give it up Justin, no one is remotely convinced by your lack of links or evidence.

You may not be. So?

I'll still explain what I can to anyone interested. And if some goon wants to write accusative crap I'll answer it if I feel like it. I've ignored some of the blatant drivel.

Lack of links? See the original post which has Campbell's. Some of them are even, entirely valid! Let me know if there's anything else. I've added a couple.

It may be there is absolutely no injury caused by injections leaking into bloodstream. The garbage posted by one in particular in this thread, hasn't done anything to support that though.

 

[AngleEyes]

So the simple choice of injection site MAY NOT avoid the problem.

Aren't you in danger of parodying the likes of ELFImpudence, ella, Godwasawoman, et al?
It's about reduction, not avoidance.

b) Statistics on vaccinations do not say it's safe, they say the benefit is worth the risk.

The benefits vastly outweigh the risks.

Nadim Zahawi (sp?) said there is no evidence.

When someone has to resort to quoting Nadim Zahawi, I suspect their argument is fragile.
No, I'm not providing any argument to counter your comments. I'm just expressing my opinion of Nadim Zahawi.

 

[Notch7]

The benefits vastly outweigh the risks

Here’s a thought, we should suggest that to the anti vaxxers on this site…..it’s possible they’ve overlooked the possibility

 

[IT Minion]

Whether it's routinely taught I don't know or care.

Interesting given that you started this thread with this:

However, anyone who has done basic nursing training has had it drummed into them that that aspiration should always be done with i-m injections.

Even if you don't care, you are not recommended to aspirate normally and this is part of normal training. You were wrong, and like I said making basic mistakes undermines your credibility.

Yes pain is inconvenient. Are you suggesting that if it proves necessary to aspirate in order to reduce severe illness and death, it's not worth doing? I imagine not.

When you're taking about making a difference of single digits in millions of vaccines, yes that does start to be a factor. How many people would avoid their second shot if they know it hurts?
This is where simple science started to hand over to public health science, which is hard.

Are you suggesting that a few pence on the hardware - or less in quantity- is not worth spending if it avoids illness and a few deaths?

No, I'm suggesting that of you can only get 4 doses out of a vial instead of 5 then that's one dose lost for the rest of the world.

You seem to think we should start retraining the vaccination teams to aspirate now, and see if the science ever catches up. Which is fine if there were no down sides to aspiration. But there are negative effects that even amateurs on the internet can identify.