Extending wiring and spotlights

[Alison556]

I couldn't put downlighters into my kitchen ceiling due to lack of access and other problems and we have a beam running across the middle of the ceiling as well - next best thing was to install spotlights on either side of the beam but this of course required the cable to the lights to be extended.

The guy doing the work used a thing that looked like a ceiling rose - I think it might have been this to join the extra wire we needed

http://www.diy.com/departments/marbo-5a-4-terminal-white-junction-box/189648_BQ.prd

Is this the right thing to have used?

Now I'm finding that the spotlights (which are mounted sideways on the beam) are burning the ceiling - so, other than setting the kitchen on fire, do I get them moved onto the ceiling or would putting 35W GU10's sort that (it's currently 50W in them)?

My kitchen lighting has been the bane of my life - it's north facing, not a big window and if the lighting is mounted where it was originally, is behind the beam so one side of the room is dark

 

[ban-all-sheds]

next best thing was to install spotlights on either side of the beam

No it wasn't. (Disclaimer - I am assuming that you want the room lit, not just spots in it).

Is this the right thing to have used?

As long as it's accessible it's OK.

Now I'm finding that the spotlights (which are mounted sideways on the beam) are burning the ceiling

Your "electrician" should never have installed them there.

would putting 35W GU10's sort that

Almost certainly not.

My kitchen lighting has been the bane of my life

Best solved, surely, by installing lighting designed to light it up, not lighting designed to not do that?

 

[deadshort]

Hi, change your lamps to led, that will solve the burning !

Regards,

DS

 

[Alison556]

next best thing was to install spotlights on either side of the beam

No it wasn't. (Disclaimer - I am assuming that you want the room lit, not just spots in it).

What other option is there - I didn't know what other option there was - hence the two x 4 spotlight lights - it does light the entire room up but boy, it gets hot in there?

Is this the right thing to have used?

As long as it's accessible it's OK.

No, it's not accessible - it's been tucked into the ceiling and plastered over - we have no access above as I have an upstairs neighbour

My kitchen lighting has been the bane of my life

Best solved, surely, by installing lighting designed to light it up, not lighting designed to not do that?

What would you suggest? I'm wondering if I'd be better getting just plain old pendants fitted centrally on either side of the beam?

 

[Simon35]

http://www.lightsonlightsoff.co.uk/kitchen-lights

Plenty of choice, I bought a flourescent strip light from them for utility room at home, nice and bright and no shadows.

Just like you might want in a kitchen.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I didn't know what other option there was

That sounds like you're saying that you don't know about the existence of any sorts of lights except spotlights. Surely I've misunderstood?

No, it's not accessible - it's been tucked into the ceiling and plastered over - we have no access above as I have an upstairs neighbour

The guy doing the work

Was not a proper electrician.

What would you suggest? I'm wondering if I'd be better getting just plain old pendants fitted centrally on either side of the beam?

Fluorescent tube lights? - They don't have to look like this:

e.g.:



LED panels?

How deep is the beam? What's the clearance under it? What's the ceiling height either side of it?

 

[Iggifer]

http://www.lightsonlightsoff.co.uk/kitchen-lights

Plenty of choice, I bought a flourescent strip light from them for utility room at home, nice and bright and no shadows.

Just like you might want in a kitchen.

Maybe its just me but that website seems very expensive

 

[Simon35]

http://www.lightsonlightsoff.co.uk/kitchen-lights

Plenty of choice, I bought a flourescent strip light from them for utility room at home, nice and bright and no shadows.

Just like you might want in a kitchen.

Maybe its just me but that website seems very expensive

Dunno, they had what we wanted, which was a strip light which didn't look like it was more at home in a garage.

Anyway, my point was to illustrate to the OP, as BAS has also done, that not all strip lights are created equal....

 

[ericmark]

There is nothing wrong with a spot light correctly installed but so often people try to copy and miss of the essential bits.

Having a spot light aimed at a white area will give a spread of light but it has to be aimed at a white area. In my bedroom I have spots on the wall above the bed as reading lights. If I aim these at the white ceiling instead of dark bedspread they really light the room but on the dark bedspread they are useless.

Using LED will remove the burning problem but rules are rules a luminaire shall
be kept at an adequate distance from combustible materials. Unless otherwise recommended by the manufacturer, a small spotlight or projector shall be installed at the following minimum distance from combustible materials up to 100W 0.5 meters.

It does not matter if 2W or 50W the rule does not change. In real life clearly the LED does remove the problem but also some one in the future could change it back to tungsten.

529.3 Provision shall be made for safe and adequate access to all parts of a wiring system which may require maintenance.

The type of junction box you show has screw connections which in theroy require maintenance there are specials which have spring terminals and are classed as maintenance free. I am sure there are many junction boxes like you show which are not accessible fitted before the rule was made.

However in the view of two basic rules being broken clearly the guy who wired it up was not an electrician. Or at least not one trained to work in domestic homes.

If it was my own daughters house I would simply swap to LED and not worry. However if I was asked to do it outside my close family then I would have to follow the rules even if I thought it was safe.

 

[JohnW2]

Using LED will remove the burning problem but rules are rules a luminaire shall be kept at an adequate distance from combustible materials. Unless otherwise recommended by the manufacturer, a small spotlight or projector shall be installed at the following minimum distance from combustible materials up to 100W 0.5 meters.

That is surely talking about the minimum distance in front of the light - i.e. one should not 'point' a spotlight or projector at combustible material less than 500mm away (which, I imagine, no-one would normally contemplate doing, anyway!)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Alison556]

Thanks all. The spotlights do work well - the kitchen is white with white worktops so there are no dark spots but given the fact that I've got 2 sets of 4 50W spotlights going, it gets pretty damned hot in there - plus there's the burning of the ceiling.

I took a strip light down cos I hated it with a vengeance - having said that, it used to be mounted on the underside of the beam and it did light the entire kitchen up, but when the house was rewired, they put it at the back of the beam, so one side was lit and the other side not - apparently you can't mount a light fitting on wood according to the electrician (he couldn't explain though why he'd mounted a light fitting in the hallway cupboard on a sheet of plywood though).

I've always associated kitchen lighting with either strip lights, downlights or spotlights - hence not being able to come up with any other alternative.

I've been looking around on t'internet to see what other things have been done with kitchen lighting and a lot of home sites just have pendants - so I was wondering if putting a pendant centrally on the ceiling on either side of the beam would be a consideration? I do have task lighting under the wall units.

The guy that fitted it wasn't a qualified electrician - he's a handy man - I'm in Scotland though and I don't believe there are regulations to having to have a qualified spark do the work - they guy was doing a lot of work for me and said that he'd do the lights as well.

BAS - the ceiling height is 255cm. The beam is 16cm deep. I did consider putting in a false ceiling to effectively get rid of the beam, but it's not feasible as the beam is lower than the top of both the window and the fridge/larder unit.

 

[Aragorn84]

Post a photo of this ceiling beam

 

[Alison556]

Post a photo of this ceiling beam

Here's the beam in question - you can see where the lights are burning the ceiling

Untitled

• Alison556
• 21 May 2015
• 1

Untitled

• Alison556
• 21 May 2015
• 1

 

[Taylortwocities]

Hi, change your lamps to led, that will solve the burning !

Some of the discolouration on the ceiling may also be caused by kitchen fumes and fug being drawn into the lights and then carried up and deposited on the ceiling. Again, swopping the lamps for lower wattage LED ones will help.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've always associated kitchen lighting with either strip lights, downlights or spotlights

You can use pretty much anything. Look at the adverts for "Country Life" house type kitchens and you'll see that some people consider chandeliers to be kitchen lighting.

I was wondering if putting a pendant centrally on the ceiling on either side of the beam would be a consideration?

Yup, or something more flush to the ceiling http://images.google.com/images?q=(flush+OR+surface)+light

I'm in Scotland though and I don't believe there are regulations to having to have a qualified spark do the work - they guy was doing a lot of work for me and said that he'd do the lights as well.

Nor in England, but a proper electrician would (should) have known where it was OK to install lights like that.