Flueless gas fires?

[sidecar_jon]

Never fails to amaze me how people phone up to get there appliances checked for safety and when whoever says no there not safe an they are turning it of to save your life and your kids lives they are then the biggest bunch of bassa`s out there.

look... im ok with "its not safe" and turning it off.... but they left me confused about just why and what to do to fix it..and suspiciouse of their motives. "curent regulations" and safety seem to have got confused at least in my mind anyway. I dont think the engineer was out of order or incompitant. Im just seeking a way to keep warm this winter...and its tatters here right now!..a plain gas fire front would be fine for me and im trying to achive that.

 

[sidecar_jon]

Paul Barker... thanks for the info there. I will try to look into it.

 

[Paul Barker]

I rang Glow Worm last week regarding one where I've fitted a combi, fire was ilfe style which customer wanted to keep. Glowworm gave me those instructions I just gave above.

 

[Paul Barker]

Without being at your home so any advice is conditional, I would read the situation as that there is little wrong with your boiler that a service wouldn't fix, that you now need new radiants for the fire, but in your circumstances well worth having fixed, that you may well actually have sufficient ventilation, but that can relatively cheaply be rectified.

I suggest you phone around and specify those to be your priorities, specifically stae you do not wish to be sold a new system.

 

[sidecar_jon]

cheers paul..im looking into it... cheers.

 

[Careful_Bodger]

Hi,

As you have, no doubt, already searched this forum about this, you will have found my previous question on this topic. If not, you can find it here
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29948&highlight=flueless

After careful consideration on the same question (including that stove), I rejected the flueless gas fire for the following reasons, notwithstanding the fact that some gas fitters will refuse to fit them, and some other are okay with them;

1) Although I felt that the combustion products (CO, CO2, etc) would be handled adequately by the catalytic converter, I felt that the condensation *would* be an issue. Having seen what my gas cooker, for example, can do in the kitchen when run for only a short time, the possible consequences of running a flueless for a whole afternoon or evening were a bit off-putting.

2) Even though all the thermal output goes to heat the room (when it is on), the thought of a permanent 100mm diameter vent with no baffles, was a bit too much. This ventilation is there ALL the time (or should be).

3) After many years with a balanced flue fire. I really wanted an open fuel bed. This is not possible with a flueless, since the combustion products must be passed through the cat, and therefore have a glass front.

In the end I settled for a power fan flue, like this one
http://www.verine.co.uk/quasar.html but with different styling, and faux coals. Even in the current cold snap, any reverse venting through the fan unit (from the outside), is not apparent.

HTH

 

[sidecar_jon]

Careful_Bodger. very good point, i hadnt considered the water resulting from combustion.... When i lived on a boat i rigged up a small chimney for our parafin heater for just this reason. cheers.

 

[Paul Barker]

Don't get two hung up comparing to parafin heaters there ismuch more h20 given off by lpg and parafin than by methane. The ventilation requirement takes care of that if it didn't you would get vitiation and the appliance would cut out via it's vsd (vitiation sensing device).

If I had one of these fires I would have a good CO detector, make sure the ventilation is as specified sit back and enjoy.

 

[Paul Barker]

Last night sat in front of a customer's dfe having just serviced it, what a wasteful society we live in. Sheds quite happy to stock stuff you the customer has no useful knowledge about, sell it to you with no information, you not having a clue what you are doing fit them, and then wander why the gas bill?

Would you buy a 3kw electric fire add a huge drafty vent to the room, sit the fire right underneath a gaping hole in the roof, sit back in your chair and be impressed with yourself? That's what you do with a dfe.

Roll on flueless fires.

Bring back condensing fires (yes they did once make them)

Level the playing field, change sedbuk(b for boilers) to sedauk (a for appliance).

Don't buy a fire from a shed, buy it from a professional.

How come sheds sell ldf and u guages?

Government are you reading me? Corgi are you reading me? Stop pussy footing and do something real for a change, Roam is burning while you criticise the registered guys over nit picky things people are throwing in dfe's with no ventilation 'cause the nice man behind the counter didn't know to tell him. Won't be long and people will be piping up the gas in plastic, mark my words.

 

[bripl]

paul gas can be piped in plastic.you can use the correct hose as well

 

[ollski]

Won't be long and people will be piping up the gas in plastic, mark my words.

Are you saying you haven't seen a customer repair of garden hose, jubilee clips and bandage yet

 

[bripl]

thats a professional repair,best one is denso wrapped around the leaky fitting

 

[Trev B]

In reply to above their can't be any differenct to using the fire in the spring or autumn if you were using an immersion heater for the hot water even though the back boiler is there, so what are they saying, if your gas valve goes down or the thermo couple goes or you just don't want to use the BBU for economical reasons, (i.e. being a tight arse), and you just use the fire front, you can't ?????

These senario's can and do happen but at the end of the day if there is sufficient natural draught with all the doors and windows shut then that fire and boiler will work forever and a day whether that ventilation is purposly provided or not, but in the defence of the engineer he's covering his arse because he can't see any purpose provided ventilation, (which is quite right because the client could seal or cover any excessive adventitious ventilation), and what has already been said is correct, his downfall was not advising the customer accordingly to provide that permanent ventilation, (perhaps his calculator was broken),

Right time to get off me soap box and apologise that this reply has got nothing to do with flueless gas fires, in fact i've just had to back tract to see how we all got here.........

 

[sidecar_jon]

at this point i would like to point out im not tight, just don't have much money to "play" with.... over the years ive passed from trusting youth to cynical middle age. I now would rather mess something up myself than to pay a "professional" to screw it up for me. I feel let down, disappointed by the world, it seems that few know what they are doing beyond following "rules" and "lore" not many know why they do things just the incantations and wavering of hands.
However im very great full to those that do know, and are willing to indulge a cynical old git like me. I find things i hadn't considered, things i had never even thought of and ta for that....