Fusebox to Consumer Unit complications?

[redulike]

I have a fusebox that I'd like to get changed to a consumer unit for the improved safety that I guess circuit breakers give.

My questions then..
a) Are electricians allowed to do this sort of swapout irrespective of the rest of the house wiring?
b) Are electricians empowered to insist on isolating circuits for safety reasons eg any wiring not meeting current regulations?

Don't get me wrong - the wiring isn't that bad! It's just had boiler and burglar alarm circuits added local to the fusebox. Plus I know I don't have a double pole isolator outside the bathroom for the fan.

I'm happy to get those fixed properly. But if the first visit by an electrician could result in the electricity in the whole house being turned off I'd like to know about that possibility beforehand.

 

[EFLImpudence]

a) Are electricians allowed to do this sort of swapout irrespective of the rest of the house wiring?

Not irrespective - no.

It has to be inspected/tested. It or some of it might be dangerous.

b) Are electricians empowered to insist on isolating circuits for safety reasons eg any wiring not meeting current regulations?

Not because of the regulations but again it might be dangerous so he can walk away if you disagree.

Don't get me wrong - the wiring isn't that bad! It's just had boiler and burglar alarm circuits added local to the fusebox.

Ok.

Plus I know I don't have a double pole isolator outside the bathroom for the fan.

Totally irrelevant.

I'm happy to get those fixed properly. But if the first visit by an electrician could result in the electricity in the whole house being turned off I'd like to know about that possibility beforehand.

No one will do that but what is 'beforehand'? How can anyone tell 'beforehand'?

 

[Murdochcat]

Sparks have absolutely no authority to turn anything off or isolate anything.

The NICEIC used to have “danger” notices but not heard of them for years.

My advice is get 2 out 3 sparks round to talk to you and provide written quotes

Then take it from there.

How old is the property?

And some cowboys talk about “illegal” installations - this is total nonsense.

 

[flameport]

I have a fusebox that I'd like to get changed to a consumer unit

How that works using professional electricians:
1 - You have the entire installation inspected and tested. You get a detailed report listing every circuit, test results for all circuits, and details of any problems, defects or dangerous items.
2 - If problems are found, they are repaired.
3 - The new consumer unit is installed
4 - Further tests are done to confirm the new consumer unit was installed correctly
5 - You get an installation certificate with the details of the new consumer unit and the circuits connected to it.
6 - If in England or Wales, the work is notified to building control by the person installing the consumer unit via whatever scheme they belong to.

After 1 there is no obligation to continue to 2, no one will disconnect anything, and you could even have 1,2 and 3 done by different people at different times.

How it works in dodgyville using someone found down the pub:
1 - A cheapo price is given for some piece of junk new consumer unit obtained from a DIY store on clearance special
2 - The consumer unit is installed, cash is handed over.
3 - Due to undiscovered problems, some of the circuits can't be switched on, others trip off randomly day and night.
4 - The person who installed it has gone on holiday and can't be contacted ever again.

 

[Murdochcat]

There is absolutely no need in 19 out of 20 installs to waste customer money doing an EICR before a CU change

 

[redulike]

Thanks to all responders. Its helpful, for me, to know what to expect.
Also, I hadn't thought of the potential for circuits to keep tripping the new CU.

While this work is being quoted for I'm tempted to ask for some extras like
a) provision for an EV charger connection (for when the time comes)
b) provision for a circuit to an external garage
I assume these will need extra space around the new CU for 'stuff' - true?

 

[AndyPRK]

Worth mentionings those.

I wouldn’t expect you to pay extra for a) though

 

[plugwash]

a) Are electricians allowed to do this sort of swapout irrespective of the rest of the house wiring?

Replacing a consumer unit means changing the protective devices that are protecting all the wiring. This means taking on some level of responsibility for that wiring. No electrican is going to want to connect wiring that is immediately dangerous to a new consumer unit.

Also a problem can be faults such as borrowed neutrals and neutral to earth faults that while not immediately dangerous in themselves will trip RCDs. If these faults aren't discovered before the CU is changed that puts everyone in a difficult spot. Removing a safety device that is required by current standards is frowned upon at best, but leaving it in place renders the installation unusable.

Therefore IMO, under most circumstances it would be a foolhardy electrican who changed a CU without doing some inspection and testing beforehand, exactly how much inspection and testing is more open to debate. Some think it's a good idea to do a full EICR upfront, others think that is a waste of money.

b) Are electricians empowered to insist on isolating circuits for safety reasons eg any wiring not meeting current regulations?

This is a tricky one.

My understanding is that the electrian can refuse to turn the power back on, but they can't stop you from turning it back on yourself.

On the other hand if someone had just told you your wiring was immediately dangerous, would you want to turn it back on?

Most of the time though, a compentent electrican should be able to tell if an installation is a basket case, before they even get the test gear out. And if it's not a basket case but just has a few issues that make it immediately dangerous then it's usually possible to make at least a temporary fix for those issues pretty quickly.

You might want to read https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/uetp0drg/best-practice-guide-1-issue-5.pdf , it's only guidance and so not every electrican will nesaacerally follow it strictly but it's a good guide to the kind of things that should be "thought about" before embarking on a CU change.

 

[Murdochcat]

Thanks to all responders. Its helpful, for me, to know what to expect.
Also, I hadn't thought of the potential for circuits to keep tripping the new CU.

While this work is being quoted for I'm tempted to ask for some extras like
a) provision for an EV charger connection (for when the time comes)
b) provision for a circuit to an external garage
I assume these will need extra space around the new CU for 'stuff' - true?

The ONLY time when a spark fits a CU with no spare capacity for additional circuits is when there is NO physical space to fit a larger unit, so you should ALWAYS get spare capacity

AND one of the other benefits of RCBO boards is that they free up 4 ways as they don't have DP RCD's

 

[Murdochcat]

This is a tricky one.

My understanding is that the electrian can refuse to turn the power back on, but they can't stop you from turning it back on yourself.

There would have to be something very seriously wrong for a spark to even attempt to tell a customer they won't turn a circuit back on AND for the benefit of anybody reading this , the customer in this situation should be asking for detailed information IN WRITING to back up their thoughts

I can't think of a situation in the last 15 years where I have needed to do this.

I think only GSR's have ANY powers to stop gas supplies, sparks have absolutely no powers to disconnect the electrics

 

[Risteard]

Worth mentionings those.

I wouldn’t expect you to pay extra for a) though

An EVSE-ready final circuit will hardly be wired for free. More like an extra few hundred quid.

 

[AndyPRK]

Depends whether they are just leaving a spare way and mcb for ev. Or running n a cable going no where.

If you do expensive prep, you can guarantee the ev installer will say it’s not suitable. And could depend on what charger is chosen / fitted

 

[denso13]

I think only GSR's have ANY powers to stop gas supplies

They can advise, that's all.