Garden electrics?

[ban-all-sheds]

As you seem BAS to have resorted to personal insult and abuse, I infer that actually you do not have a good argument to counter my points!

I can't stop you inferring that, but I can observe that if you do it's another example of your defective reasoning.

Good arguments?

What possible argument, as in something based on evidence and/or reason could anyone have to counter the view that electricians who join a competent person scheme have signed away their professionalism? Ditto to counter the view that in the discussion about speaker cables on UPVC, people were trying to decide if they have to be protected by an RCD because that book says so?

Abusive or unhelpful posts are not welcome

Suggesting that electricians who join a competent person scheme have signed away their professionalism is unhelpful. Suggesting that in the discussion about speaker cables on UPVC, people were trying to decide if they have to be protected by an RCD because that book says so is unhelpful.

Thinking that people here have so little intelligence that you could get away with those UTTERLY RIDICULOUS claims is insulting.

However understand this, I come from a background where everything isn't in a book, I am expected to solve problems and restore supplies to customers safely, on budget and within time limits.

So? The relevance of that to whether the OP is competent to design LV circuits, and whether it is realistic for him to expect an electrician to take over where he leaves off and then take responsibility for the whole thing is what, exactly?

If it is not in a book or design (and a lot of stuff isn't) I have to design and implement it myself in conjunction with skilled craftsmen. (in 2011 this included relaying 1.6km of 11kV cable under Wastwater to comply with our requirements, Safety requirements, landowner requirements environmental requirements and keep customers happy whilst doing so. Even getting it to site needed specialist involvement to avoid collapsing 2 bridges
Total cost £1,000,000
Non of that was in any book anywhere)
(oh and dealing with the TV and press as well)

So? The relevance of that to whether the OP is competent to design LV circuits, and whether it is realistic for him to expect an electrician to take over where he leaves off and then take responsibility for the whole thing is what, exactly?

So it pains me to see folk so dependent on a book and it's associated guides.

It pains me to see people masquerading as electricians when they can barely read.

I'll finish with this point, in the event of other authorities (Police, Fire, Environmental Health to name 3) finding unsafe electrical installations or needing advice, who do they turn to?
Local electricians? Well round here non will put their head above the parapet and give an answer when asked in case of repercussions

Then if they had any shame, or even an inkling of what being a professional meant they would jack in pretending to be an electrician and seek employment more suited to their abilities, like picking up litter in parks.

So do not ever, ever deem to take the above attitude with me until you have stood in my shoes dealing with a major HV fault

Why, given that that is of zero relevance to the situation of someone with insufficient competence seeking to design LV circuits and thinking that everything will be fine as long as he gets an electrician to tighten some of the terminal screws?

If you are so dismayed at the thought of people being expected to comply with BS 7671 will we henceforth see you telling all those asking questions here that they should not attempt to do anything unless they are able to lay 1.6km of 11kV cable under Wastwater, or deal with major HV faults?

 

[skotl]

Every so often, BAS, you post something worth reading.
But why do we have to put up with your abusive crap in the other 90% of your posts?


I can paraphrase your response; "why should I have to lower myself to this ******'s level?" and the answer is probably something you have heard in person, rather than on an internet forum; "because they are more likely to listen when you don't insult them",

Let's get all personal for a minute, b-a-s; my son has your traits. You are a lot older than he is. With some awareness, both of you will be able to get your point across but, if you continue to fight, then at some point you will find that nobody is willing to stand beside you.
I know that I am a nobody, but please stop fighting, b-a-s.

 

[angelboy]

I've just been down to B & Q and they had loads of different sorts of cable and it was quite confusing. Luckily for me they also had little pictures on the packaging that told me what each cable was used for.

I bought the one that had a lightbulb on it and one that had a power socket on it........don't know why you electricians make such a song and dance about how complicated it all it......get yourself down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front...........easy peasy........

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[AndyPRK]

Oh lol. Very ammusing but there is some truth in what you say under most circumstances

 

[angelboy]

I thought you were supposed to be perceptive....

 

[JohnW2]

So tell us - did you write this:

I bought the one that had a lightbulb on it and one that had a power socket on it........don't know why you electricians make such a song and dance about how complicated it all it......get yourself down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front...........easy peasy........

because it's a lie ....

What are you suggesting is a lie? I can't speak for B&Q, but some of the 'sheds' certainly do (or did - I haven't looked for a long time!) sell cable whose packaging/labelling bears images of such things as 'lightbulbs' and 'sockets' to indicate the most common use of the cable. I'm obviously not suggesting that as an acceptable method of cable selection, but it nevertheless is/was true!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What are you suggesting is a lie?

I bought the one that had a lightbulb on it and one that had a power socket on it........don't know why you electricians make such a song and dance about how complicated it all it......get yourself down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front...........easy peasy........

I can't speak for B&Q, but some of the 'sheds' certainly do (or did - I haven't looked for a long time!) sell cable whose packaging/labelling bears images of such things as 'lightbulbs' and 'sockets' to indicate the most common use of the cable. I'm obviously not suggesting that as an acceptable method of cable selection, but it nevertheless is/was true!

Indeed that is.

But angelboy said that he didn't know why electricians made such a song and dance about how complicated it all is. Does he genuinely not know, or is that statement untrue?

You don't think that B&Q's images are an acceptable method of cable selection, and neither do I. Does angelboy? He said that all people need to do is to get themselves down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front. Does he genuinely believe that, or did he know when he wrote it that that statement was untrue?

 

[JohnW2]

But angelboy said that he didn't know why electricians made such a song and dance about how complicated it all is. Does he genuinely not know, or is that statement untrue?

I haven't got a clue. As I imagine you would probably agree, there appears to be evidence of some appreciable holes in his knowledge/understanding, so I certainly would not be the person to assert that his statement that 'he does not know' is necessarily a lie! I have no doubt that there are lots of (pertinent) things that he genuinely 'does not know'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

You can't deny the fact that 1mm or 1.5mm cable is used for lighting circuits in houses.

Also it is very common for socket circuits to be wired in 2.5mm. They are not telling you how the circuit is configured or the protective device size. But if you were wanting to add some sockets 2.5mm wouldn't be a bad item to put in your shopping basket.

If a DIYer were to find a thicker existing cable you would like to think they would stop and think.

It would be interesting to know the picture on the 4mm cable. That may also have a socket picture.....and make the DIYer think.

It would not be unreasonable for 6mm cable to have a cooker picture. If anyone would suggest 10mm they would be told its a waste of copper.

[/quote]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I haven't got a clue. As I imagine you would probably agree, there appears to be evidence of some appreciable holes in his knowledge/understanding, so I certainly would not be the person to assert that his statement that 'he does not know' is necessarily a lie! I have no doubt that there are lots of (pertinent) things that he genuinely 'does not know'!

You seem to be focusing only on half of what I wrote.

Which basically was 'either XXXXXX or ZZZZZZ'.

It's quite possible that what he wrote was not a lie. Maybe he does genuinely believe that in order to be an electrician all you need to do is look at the images on reels of cable in B&Q - I've recognised that from the start.

 

[JohnW2]

It's quite possible that what he wrote was not a lie.

That's what I said - so why did you write:

So tell us - did you write this:

I bought the one that had a lightbulb on it and one that had a power socket on it........don't know why you electricians make such a song and dance about how complicated it all it......get yourself down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front...........easy peasy........

because it's a lie ....

??

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Did you simply not see this, or decide to just pay it no heed?

You seem to be focusing only on half of what I wrote.

so why did you write:

So tell us - did you write this:

I bought the one that had a lightbulb on it and one that had a power socket on it........don't know why you electricians make such a song and dance about how complicated it all it......get yourself down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front...........easy peasy........

because it's a lie ....

??

I didn't just write that though, did I?

I wrote a question with a 'XXXX or YYYY' in it.

Why do you keep chopping off the second half and claiming that I only said 'XXXX'?

 

[JohnW2]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
I didn't just write that though, did I? I wrote a question with a 'XXXX or YYYY' in it.

I don't think you did in that particular post but, unfortunately I can no longer check - since, presumably because of some of the language you chose to use in the remainder of the post, it has been removed from view!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

John - it cannot have been removed when you quoted it here:

So tell us - did you write this:

I bought the one that had a lightbulb on it and one that had a power socket on it........don't know why you electricians make such a song and dance about how complicated it all it......get yourself down to B&Q and just follow the pictures on the front...........easy peasy........

because it's a lie ....

What are you suggesting is a lie? ...

So right from the very start you chose to ignore the second half of my "did you write this because XXXX or YYYY?" question,