Going On Holiday? Then read This!

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There was no prejudicial statement about your driving skill at all. And No, passing a driving test does not reflect your driving skill. A driving test is a series of fixed manoeuvres designed to test your ability to pass a test. If you like a test to see if you can carry out those fixed exercises. The examiner is also assessing other aspects too.
 
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There was no prejudicial statement about your driving skill at all. And No, passing a driving test does not reflect your driving skill. A driving test is a series of fixed manoeuvres designed to test your ability to pass a test. If you like a test to see if you can carry out those fixed exercises. The examiner is also assessing other aspects too.
The examiner is also assessing other aspects too? What like your ability to send text messages whilst driving? :rolleyes: Or perhaps watching TV whilst driving? :rolleyes: Or reading the paper whilst driving? :rolleyes:

You keep making such daft comments, it's becoming hard to take you seriously.
 
What like your ability to send text messages whilst driving?

How often you use the mirror.
How quickly you notice "adverse" traffic.
Your reaction to hazards both real and perceived.
Your awareness of what other traffic is doing.
Your level of confidence.

and several others
 
also and the French have been known to prosecute UK drivers for breaking EU rules but not UK rules whilst the vehicle was in the UK.
How can French prosecute drivers for breaking UK rules????:confused: France can prosecute drivers in France using French rules (or EU rules), they can't use UK rules to prosecute in France!


I do not know the facts of the example but isn't that what FO said?
A good example of Himmy causing the argument to veer of course and be confused and prolonged.
 
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What like your ability to send text messages whilst driving?

How often you use the mirror.
How quickly you notice "adverse" traffic.
Your reaction to hazards both real and perceived.
Your awareness of what other traffic is doing.
Your level of confidence.

and several others
Exactly. And isn't that part and parcel of one's driving ability?
 
also and the French have been known to prosecute UK drivers for breaking EU rules but not UK rules whilst the vehicle was in the UK.
How can French prosecute drivers for breaking UK rules????:confused: France can prosecute drivers in France using French rules (or EU rules), they can't use UK rules to prosecute in France!


I do not know the facts of the example but isn't that what FO said?
A good example of Himmy causing the argument to veer of course and be confused and prolonged.
How ever else would the French manage to prosecute UK drivers whilst the vehicle was in UK? What EU rules apply that are not UK rules?
What EU rules apply that are not French rules?
There are UK and French rules that are not EU rules. But all EU rules are also UK and French rules!

Additionally, the French have no jurisdiction for vehicles in UK!
It was a nonsense comment from a nonsense person. Another case of daft assertions without any possibility of supporting evidence.
Maybe I didn't respond appropriately to FO's daft comment. How should one respond to such daft and illogical assertions?

We never can know the facts of FO's case, probably because there aren't any. And even if there were FO would refuse to provide them!
 
How should one respond to such daft and illogical assertions?

If someone writes something you regard as wrong then just comment "I don't think that's correct" and give evidence if you want to - or not.
That will raise doubts in the minds of anyone reading both and if they are interested they can look it up.



Again, I do not know the facts of the example but to help you understand:
How ever else would the French manage to prosecute UK drivers whilst the vehicle was in UK?
FO didn't say that.
He said - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules whilst in the UK].
Not - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules] whilst in the UK.

What EU rules apply that are not UK rules?
I do not know but perhaps some UK rules regarding driving hours, total hours or break times are less stringent than the EU rules.

What EU rules apply that are not French rules?
That is irrelevant for this discussion.

There are UK and French rules that are not EU rules. But all EU rules are also UK and French rules!
Can you have both?

Additionally, the French have no jurisdiction for vehicles in UK!
The vehicle was not in the UK when the French examined the tachograph card.
That is the reason for the tachograph - retrospective inspection.
 
How should one respond to such daft and illogical assertions?

If someone writes something you regard as wrong then just comment "I don't think that's correct" and give evidence if you want to - or not.
That will raise doubts in the minds of anyone reading both and if they are interested they can look it up.
Just as easy for the original proponent to provide some supporting evidence for their assertion so we can check the facts of the case. Usually they've been twisted, misinterpreted or intentionally distorted.

Again, I do not know the facts of the example but to help you understand:
How ever else would the French manage to prosecute UK drivers whilst the vehicle was in UK?
FO didn't say that.
He said - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules whilst in the UK].
Not - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules] whilst in the UK.
What?
Kindly explain the difference.

What EU rules apply that are not UK rules?
I do not know but perhaps some UK rules regarding driving hours, total hours or break times are less stringent than the EU rules.
All EU rules apply also in UK

What EU rules apply that are not French rules?
That is irrelevant for this discussion.
Maybe. But FO was talking out of his proverbial backside, and I'm trying to find out what the heck he and you are now on about!

There are UK and French rules that are not EU rules. But all EU rules are also UK and French rules!
Can you have both?
Of course, some French rules apply in France. Some UK rules apply in UK. All EU rules apply both in UK and France!

Additionally, the French have no jurisdiction for vehicles in UK!
The vehicle was not in the UK when the French examined the tachograph card.
That is the reason for the tachograph - retrospective inspection.
You seem to have suddenly developed an idea of what FO was talking about. Despite your statement that you didn't know the facts of the example that he didn't provide.
It seems to me you've again made an argument, with me, just for the sake of arguing with me!
To go back to FO's assertion:
......
It UK hauliers have to pay UK road tax and foreign hauliers don't, then assuming the road tax is lower in their native country, then UK hauliers are at a disadvantage as are UK road users. Further more haulage companies in some countries enjoy EU grants to modernise their fleets where UK hauliers have to pay for their own vehicles... The CPC that is required for all haulage drivers within the EU is widely ignored in many central European states where as it is rigorously enforced in the UK.. Tachograph rules are interpreted differently in many other EU countries to the way they are here also and the French have been known to prosecute UK drivers for breaking EU rules but not UK rules whilst the vehicle was in the UK.
Perhaps you'll explain how EU rules are more stringent than UK rules, and are more stringent when applied in France, and that EU rules don't apply in UK!
 
also and the French have been known to prosecute UK drivers for breaking EU rules but not UK rules whilst the vehicle was in the UK.
How can French prosecute drivers for breaking UK rules????:confused: France can prosecute drivers in France using French rules (or EU rules), they can't use UK rules to prosecute in France!

Simple, the look at your tachograph and irrespective of where you started your journey or ended it, they see speeds in excess of 90kph and fine you... They do this at the roadside and your vehicle does not move 'till it is paid.. You can argue the toss but then you can discuss it at the police station whilst your load is not being delivered.. You do have the option to contest the charges in court but by the time you have done that it works out more expensive than it would if you had paid up and shut up.

The French police also like to see driving times not exceeding 4 hours before a break and also like to see a break of an hour rather than 45 mins.. Again, you can argue but it gets you nowhere and costs more in the long run.. Some large Spanish hauliers have accounts with the French Police to speed up the payment of fines..
 
also and the French have been known to prosecute UK drivers for breaking EU rules but not UK rules whilst the vehicle was in the UK.
How can French prosecute drivers for breaking UK rules????:confused: France can prosecute drivers in France using French rules (or EU rules), they can't use UK rules to prosecute in France!

Simple, the look at your tachograph and irrespective of where you started your journey or ended it, they see speeds in excess of 90kph and fine you... They do this at the roadside and your vehicle does not move 'till it is paid.. You can argue the toss but then you can discuss it at the police station whilst your load is not being delivered.. You do have the option to contest the charges in court but by the time you have done that it works out more expensive than it would if you had paid up and shut up.

The French police also like to see driving times not exceeding 4 hours before a break and also like to see a break of an hour rather than 45 mins.. Again, you can argue but it gets you nowhere and costs more in the long run.. Some large Spanish hauliers have accounts with the French Police to speed up the payment of fines..
So you've never heard of the ECofJ?
Neither has you employer?
Neither have the Spanish hauliers?
Neither have the UK driver's unions?
Nor the Professional Drivers Association?
You talk utter twaddle!
The ECofJ is specifically provided for issues such as this.
Again, provide specific examples of when or where the French police have brought successful prosecutions or fines.
Additionally, you won't have ended your journey, if the French police are able to stop you and examine your tacho'.
So it can only apply to where you started your journey.
 
He said - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules whilst in the UK].
Not - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules] whilst in the UK.
What?
Kindly explain the difference.
The first sentence means the French, in France, did the driver, in France, for exceeding EU rules whilst driving in the UK
The second is your ridiculous interpretation that the French, in UK, did the driver, in UK, for exceeding EU rules whilst driving in the UK.

I do not know but perhaps some UK rules regarding driving hours, total hours or break times are less stringent than the EU rules.
All EU rules apply also in UK
So, ALL regulations are exactly the same throughout Europe are they?


There are UK and French rules that are not EU rules. But all EU rules are also UK and French rules!
Can you have both?
Of course, some French rules apply in France. Some UK rules apply in UK.
There you go, you've got it.
All EU rules apply both in UK and France!
Is that the case? Are there no dispensations to individual countries?

You seem to have suddenly developed an idea of what FO was talking about. Despite your statement that you didn't know the facts of the example that he didn't provide.
I understood what he said, yes. I don't know if the facts are correct.

It seems to me you've again made an argument, with me, just for the sake of arguing with me!
That's because you have such a sanctimonious attitude toward everyone else yet still do not realise you are the most irritating here.


Perhaps you'll explain how EU rules are more stringent than UK rules,
They may not allow the drivers to work as long hours.
 
He said - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules whilst in the UK].
Not - the French prosecuted the driver [for breaking EU rules] whilst in the UK.
What?
Kindly explain the difference.
The first sentence means the French, in France, did the driver, in France, for exceeding EU rules whilst driving in the UK
The second is your ridiculous interpretation that the French, in UK, did the driver, in UK, for exceeding EU rules whilst driving in the UK.
No more ridiculous than suggesting the French prosecute a driver for breaking the French speed limit whilst driving in UK!
Current speed limit policies
A speed limit is based on both safety and mobility considerations and increasingly also on environmental considerations. The general framework for speed limits is the responsibility of the national government. Generally, local and regional road authorities determine the speed limit on a particular road. The current general speed limits vary across EU Member States.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_...ed_limits/current_speed_limit_policies_en.htm

I do not know but perhaps some UK rules regarding driving hours, total hours or break times are less stringent than the EU rules.
All EU rules apply also in UK
So, ALL regulations are exactly the same throughout Europe are they?
Obviously not all, knowing you'll take it to the extreme. But all working directives apply reasonably equally across all EU member states. That includes HGV driving rules.
It would be nonsense to suggest that HGV drivers work to their own national rules even whilst driving in other member states.
Where a rule does not apply, it makes specific provision for not applying, e.g. VAT on food in UK.

There are UK and French rules that are not EU rules. But all EU rules are also UK and French rules!
Can you have both?
Of course, some French rules apply in France. Some UK rules apply in UK.
There you go, you've got it.
All EU rules apply both in UK and France!
Is that the case? Are there no dispensations to individual countries?
Again, you'll be taking it to the extreme, and I was talking working directives. Where dispensations apply, it will be specific. Certainly, one cannot expect to obey UK rules when driving in other member states, in contravention to the local rules. That would be nonsense.

You seem to have suddenly developed an idea of what FO was talking about. Despite your statement that you didn't know the facts of the example that he didn't provide.
I understood what he said, yes. I don't know if the facts are correct.
But you seem happy to accept those facts at face value in order to argue. Or do you have another agenda?

It seems to me you've again made an argument, with me, just for the sake of arguing with me!
That's because you have such a sanctimonious attitude toward everyone else yet still do not realise you are the most irritating here.
Isn't self-perception a wonderful thing. I'm happy being the most sanctimonious person here........and annoying the crap out of other sanctimonious people.


Perhaps you'll explain how EU rules are more stringent than UK rules,
They may not allow the drivers to work as long hours.
Then EU rules will apply, unless they have a specific dispensation, which can only apply in UK! It cannot apply to UK HGV drivers when driving in other member states!
Usually, if EU rules are more stringent, then they apply. However, local rules may be more stringent than EU rules.

This case would be no different than the case of Northampton police crushing a foreign registered vehicle because the insurance details was not on MIB. It later transpired that the insurance was applicable and appropriate. The police had to compensate the driver/owner of the crushed vehicle.
 
In addition:
There are 3 sets of rules that could apply to your journey:

The rules that apply depend on:

  • the type of vehicle you’re driving
  • which country you’re driving in
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/overview
A professional driver, especially one who is driving in other member states would be clued up on which rules apply and when.

Also:
Some types of vehicle are exempt from EU rules. This means they come under GB domestic rules in the UK.

The main types of exempt vehicle are:
It then lists the type of vehicle exempt from EU rules.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/exemptions-from-eu-law


EU rules
EU rules apply if the maximum permissible weight of your vehicle or vehicle combination is more than 3.5 tonnes and you’re driving in any of the following:

Some vehicles are exempt from EU rules when driven in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/goods-vehicles
 
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