Greedy middle class pensioners

[gasbanni]

This title should have been greedy public sector pensioners and there's more than ever on the horizon..............

when is it going to be stopped this unsustainable two tier system ?

 

[anobium]

I genuinely feel sorry for the pensioners, who have worked their b*llocks off for years, and yet are too afraid to put the heating on to keep themselves alive.

But the chap in the original post is receiving somewhere in the region of £30k+ He doesn't qualify for any help whatsoever, yet complains he doesn't feel well off. Is he afraid to turn his heating on? I don't think so.
Remember, there are some reaching retirement age now who have not worked their b*****ks off.
The chap in the OP has a great pension paid for by me and you. Were he 30 yrs younger, he'd have been one of those on strike the other week.

He,s sorry, they are on a bit more than that, if you add both their state pensions and his wifes small private pension they would be on a minimum of £45k .
Don't forget the free bus passes , prescriptions and no NHI or pension contributions , and somebody still working would have to be earning in the region of £60k to be on a par with this individual.
By the way I am from his generation and whilst I am not in the same league of pension benefits I think something should be done about it and the money go to the genuine deserving cases.
I am now going off to my favourite restaurant for a slap up meal with all the trimmings and a couple of bottles of fine claret with my better half

 

[wotan]

Why should there be any cut off point after all have middle class and rich pensioners not paid in all their working lives and in reality paid in a lot more money in 40% taxes and higher NI contributions and have probably invested their money wisely so they can have a comfortable retirement.

Hmmm let's not have any cut off point for any benefits and just give everyone what they think they should get. Hmm, how many of us would retire early and claim everything we could?
The reality is, if this chap thinks he's struggling on £30k+ per year, he might want to struggle on the National Minimum Wage for a couple of years.

Quite right, people live up to their life standards, they are as much, if not more entitled to any benefits, than the people who have decended on this country of ours looking for free hands outs, never having contributed a bean.
Good luck to them

Wotan

 

[LastMagicBean]

I was generalizing, not concentrating on the individuals concerned.

My fault. I apologize.

You're quite right, let them die and only the rich ones live.

 

[gas112]

Its quite simple when you join this weekly payment to the pension club it says when you reach a certain age you will start to get back some of all the money that you and hopefully others have contributed to that fund.
And as part of all that money you have paid in you will get on reaching certain ages things like bus pass /television licenses and heating allowances etc.
Its not FREE as people have already paid for it, over usually over a period of 40 years plus
So why the fek should people not get what they are entitled to no matter how much money they have .

Sort out the other benefits etc where people who have contributed absolutely f##k all to this country or economy are raking in hundreds a week.
And i dont only mean forgeiners in that.

 

[wotan]

gas112,

that is exactly the point I was trying to highlight, people live up to their income, they may have a large house, but with that comes big bills, pro rata they are probably not that much more wealthy, than the average, if they have worked hard then they are entitled to it.
As stated why should anyone who has not contributed into our country get free hand outs.

Wotan

 

[Djnikon]

Bus Pass, heating allowance and Free TV Licence - make them all means tested and we would save billions each year.
I earn little over £30k, work a 40+ hour week with no hope of overtime payments (salaried only) contribute to a pension that won't see a huge return and, along with my wife (earning £15k for full time hours) have to support our children, pay bills et al.
We manage but this pensioner saying he's hard done-by is laughable by comparison.

 

[masona]

Bus Pass, heating allowance and Free TV Licence - make them all means tested and we would save billions each year.

From what I understand it's too costly to do and would be cheaper to leave it alone, I can't see how over long term

 

[Susiejb]

if they have worked hard then they are entitled to it.
Wotan

the problem is that financial resources are under stress....and 2.7 billlion pounds was paid out in heating allowances last year.....my point is simply that someone with a healthy bank account and a nice pension is surely not desperate for a heating allowance, apparently 180 pensioners died every day in the UK during last winter purely from the cold....would it not be better to channel the money to where it is most needed and help those who are afraid to keep their homes warm because of rising bills.

 

[Djnikon]

Bus Pass, heating allowance and Free TV Licence - make them all means tested and we would save billions each year.

From what I understand it's too costly to do and would be cheaper to leave it alone, I can't see how over long term

Sounds very short sighted in the way of it may cost a lot in the short term but surely, just surely someone must have been looking at the long-term Return on Investment? Or would that be too simplistic?

 

[Susiejb]

it may cost a lot in the short term but surely, just surely someone must have been looking at the long-term Return on Investment? Or would that be too simplistic?

Unfortunately yes I think that may be the case.

 

[D_Hailsham]

someone must have been looking at the long-term Return on Investment? Or would that be too simplistic?

What ROI? The money anybody pays as a contribution to their future State Pension is not invested, it is just used to help pay the pensions of those who are already drawing their pension.

And this is where there problem lies: the number of people of working age is reducing and the number of pensioners is increasing. So the fewer workers will have to contribute more, or work longer, so there is enough money in the Pension Pot to pay the growing band of pensioners.

There has been a lot of moaning about the fact that pension increases will in future be based on the change in the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) and not on the Retail Prices Index (RPI) as the CPI is lower than the RPI. Speaking as a pensioner I can see the logic of this change. The main difference is that RPI includes mortgage costs and CPI does not. As most pensioners have paid off their mortgage by the time they retire, there does not seem to be any reason why mortgage costs should be taken into account when calculating pension increases.

 

[anobium]

it may cost a lot in the short term but surely, just surely someone must have been looking at the long-term Return on Investment? Or would that be too simplistic?

Unfortunately yes I think that may be the case.

Bit of tinkering with the system at HMRC and it could be reclaimed in income tax without any extra staff and very little effort.
Or am I being naive.

 

[joe-90]

Why does it take any paperwork at all? If your pension is too high - you don't get the winter fuel payment. If your taxable income is too high you don't get the extras. Where's the problem?

 

[Djnikon]

Why does it take any paperwork at all? If your pension is too high - you don't get the winter fuel payment. If your taxable income is too high you don't get the extras. Where's the problem?

Exactly, Joe nails it.
D_Hailsham, Return on investment isn't about money being invested per se (as in in banks or investment funds). It's about the money spent in the short term in order to provide a more in control future state that costs less.
So in this case, if it cost £1m to re-engineer systems or processes to provide a £2m in year benefit (in this example introducing means testing processes) then it's a 2:1 ROI. Simples.
This is what I do for a day job (Six Sigma Improvement Analyst) and would be happy to provide my services to the government for a nominal fee.