How do i stand?
- Thread starter spoonbed
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What are your exact T&C's for this?
Do they just state that the goods remain yours in title until paid for, or do they state that you can uninstall fitted items?
Normally, once you fit something then it becomes part of the property and you would not be allowed to remove it. You would have to sue for the costs.
You T&C's may be unfair and unenforceable - they are OK for a supply only contract, but inappropriate for contract that includes fitting - as once the item is fitted/installed there is technically a transfer of ownership
You are on dodgy ground legally if you uninstalled something, and the customer may be entitled to engage another to make good the structure, or have a replacement installed and then sue you for his costs
Yes you have not been paid, so you want the item(s) back, but you will have to argue the case in court.
You may find that suddenly the customer makes a complaint about the standard of fitting or quality etc, and this then immediately puts you in the wrong for uninstalling the item.
You need to get some legal advice on this.
Do they just state that the goods remain yours in title until paid for, or do they state that you can uninstall fitted items?
Normally, once you fit something then it becomes part of the property and you would not be allowed to remove it. You would have to sue for the costs.
You T&C's may be unfair and unenforceable - they are OK for a supply only contract, but inappropriate for contract that includes fitting - as once the item is fitted/installed there is technically a transfer of ownership
You are on dodgy ground legally if you uninstalled something, and the customer may be entitled to engage another to make good the structure, or have a replacement installed and then sue you for his costs
Yes you have not been paid, so you want the item(s) back, but you will have to argue the case in court.
You may find that suddenly the customer makes a complaint about the standard of fitting or quality etc, and this then immediately puts you in the wrong for uninstalling the item.
You need to get some legal advice on this.
Oh deep joy.
On our invoices it states that items remain the property of untill paid for in full as per our T&C's.We dont actually have T&C's drawn up( one man band etc) as have never had an issue before.
Surely to god if somebody receives goods/services and dosnt honour a contract to pay for goods within a set timeframe then this is in efect theft.
No wonder the country's shot to pieces
On our invoices it states that items remain the property of untill paid for in full as per our T&C's.We dont actually have T&C's drawn up( one man band etc) as have never had an issue before.
Surely to god if somebody receives goods/services and dosnt honour a contract to pay for goods within a set timeframe then this is in efect theft.
No wonder the country's shot to pieces
No its not theft, as there has to be clear intent. This is very difficult to prove and so the Police are not often interested - together with the fact that there will be a dispute over ownership, which is not a Police matter
Your customer has agreed to enter in to contractual relations, and therefore its breach of contract, which is a civil matter.
Its a bit of a minefield as many things can be bought up as to why one party may choose not to honour their part of the agreement.
And it will be your job to prove that a legitimate contract existed, that T&C's were fair and reasonable, and that the other party breached the contract. You will also have to prove that you had the right to go and un-install the items - for which I think caselaw will be against you
It is often the case that the other party will counter-claim and allege that you have breached the contract or failed to do the work properly etc.
Your customer has agreed to enter in to contractual relations, and therefore its breach of contract, which is a civil matter.
Its a bit of a minefield as many things can be bought up as to why one party may choose not to honour their part of the agreement.
And it will be your job to prove that a legitimate contract existed, that T&C's were fair and reasonable, and that the other party breached the contract. You will also have to prove that you had the right to go and un-install the items - for which I think caselaw will be against you
It is often the case that the other party will counter-claim and allege that you have breached the contract or failed to do the work properly etc.
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I find it utterly laughable that he is threatening to charge you to replace kit that you installed but he did not pay for!!!
As laughable as the guy who recently sued the hospital for injuring his arm whilst saving his life from his suicide attempt - he got £90k
Or the woman who Sued McDonalds because the coffee cup did not say "hot"
Or Tony Martin who got life for shooting a burglar and got sued by the other burglar?
Most of the recent claims in the civil court are laughable - buoyed up by devious lawyers pursuing nonsense claims
I believe that there was a case recently where a builder went round and demolished a womans front porch that he had installed because she hadn't paid the bill..
just took it down, carted the bricks off and left...
just took it down, carted the bricks off and left...
No, he went though the courts and got a judgement, but the woman did not pay up. Enforcing the judgement would have cost more money - which the woman did not have.
The property was actually a council house, so he got the councils permission to remove the porch.
He would not have just been able to knock the porch down otherwise
The property was actually a council house, so he got the councils permission to remove the porch.
He would not have just been able to knock the porch down otherwise
Talking of world gone mad scenarios:
An outward bound place oop north was running a corporate team-buildng course. At the start of the course, one woman collapsed in the carpark and her heart stopped. The guys from the company did emergency CPR, got her going again and packed her off to hospital. She survived. As we all (should) know, CPR can be quite violent in application, as a result of which, she suffered three broken ribs.
Most people would be extremely grateful that someone had acted to ensure their survival. She wasn't: she sued them for injuring her and was successful in her claim
.
As a result of which, everyone who goes there now has to have a medical certificate stating that they are ok and they are told that, if they collapse for any reason, they will not be resuscitated by the company guys, they will have to take their chances on the paramedics getting there on time.
An outward bound place oop north was running a corporate team-buildng course. At the start of the course, one woman collapsed in the carpark and her heart stopped. The guys from the company did emergency CPR, got her going again and packed her off to hospital. She survived. As we all (should) know, CPR can be quite violent in application, as a result of which, she suffered three broken ribs.
Most people would be extremely grateful that someone had acted to ensure their survival. She wasn't: she sued them for injuring her and was successful in her claim
.As a result of which, everyone who goes there now has to have a medical certificate stating that they are ok and they are told that, if they collapse for any reason, they will not be resuscitated by the company guys, they will have to take their chances on the paramedics getting there on time.
Spoonbed. For your piece of mind Theft is defined as;
Dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it.
Your customer did not commit theft unless you can prove their mindset to dishonesty at the outset.
Likewise, the property belongs to you so you cannot commit the offence either.
That is all in very general terms. This is a classic civil case and not one the Police will involve themselves in despite threats from the company concerned.[/i][/b]
Dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it.
Your customer did not commit theft unless you can prove their mindset to dishonesty at the outset.
Likewise, the property belongs to you so you cannot commit the offence either.
That is all in very general terms. This is a classic civil case and not one the Police will involve themselves in despite threats from the company concerned.[/i][/b]
B
breezer
spoonbed, seek legal advice. This is a forum and with the best of intentions, unless some one states and can prove they are giving correct legal advice its only an opinion, just like this is.
just imagine in court, Ah, spoonbed, and who told you you could remove this poperty? some one you don't know, that you will never meet on a forum did, and becuse it sounded right you followed it.
Doesnt look good does it.
In this day and age you may be sued for ..................
just imagine in court, Ah, spoonbed, and who told you you could remove this poperty? some one you don't know, that you will never meet on a forum did, and becuse it sounded right you followed it.
Doesnt look good does it.
In this day and age you may be sued for ..................
hi spoonbed
i looked thru all the posts and in my laymans mind your probably 51% wrong(i know its unbelivable) but i could be 51%wrong,thats based on other peoples experience with very similar cases like yours
only time will tell
my only advice to any one is take a deposit to cover the goods and maybe 10% for the labour and if they dont pay at least you have paid your suppliers you then go straight to the small claims court
many years ago i employed two painters they walked off the job,created mess and damage i witheld their wages to cover it i lost the case at a tribunal my solicitor advised me that i would lose because of the law and that i had to take them to court for the damages wasnt worth it but one day i know i will bump into at least one of them and the hammer of thor will stike! ( i will probably say "hi are you doing")
good luck
bob
bob
i looked thru all the posts and in my laymans mind your probably 51% wrong(i know its unbelivable) but i could be 51%wrong,thats based on other peoples experience with very similar cases like yours
only time will tell
my only advice to any one is take a deposit to cover the goods and maybe 10% for the labour and if they dont pay at least you have paid your suppliers you then go straight to the small claims court
many years ago i employed two painters they walked off the job,created mess and damage i witheld their wages to cover it i lost the case at a tribunal my solicitor advised me that i would lose because of the law and that i had to take them to court for the damages wasnt worth it but one day i know i will bump into at least one of them and the hammer of thor will stike! ( i will probably say "hi are you doing")
good luck
bob
bob
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