How many GU10s?
- Thread starter abbo27
- Start date
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Use 20W or 35W max bulbs and get 12V versions to ensure you get good efficacy. Don't go for LED as you'll never pay it back and the light at the moment isn't as crisp.
I have spaced downlights in a fairly random fashion in our kitchen, you don't need to have a grid system that makes your ceiling look like a game of Connect 4. Put them in rows above the worktops, and make sure you have one above the sink. Then a couple of extra ones in the middle to light the floor.
General rules will be 600mm from edge as discussed, but I put mine 500mm from edge to give good lighting for worktops. Then make sure they're evenly distanced between the walls and other sources of lighting (i.e. hood lights above the cooker). Get tilt ones so you can point them into dark spots and any important features (welsh dresser/fridge/table) or dark corners.
In a room your size I'd use 8 at 20W each. Forget GU10 unless you're really keen on LED at a later date.
I have spaced downlights in a fairly random fashion in our kitchen, you don't need to have a grid system that makes your ceiling look like a game of Connect 4. Put them in rows above the worktops, and make sure you have one above the sink. Then a couple of extra ones in the middle to light the floor.
General rules will be 600mm from edge as discussed, but I put mine 500mm from edge to give good lighting for worktops. Then make sure they're evenly distanced between the walls and other sources of lighting (i.e. hood lights above the cooker). Get tilt ones so you can point them into dark spots and any important features (welsh dresser/fridge/table) or dark corners.
In a room your size I'd use 8 at 20W each. Forget GU10 unless you're really keen on LED at a later date.
That just isn't true.
The real answer is not to install beady little lights in the first place, but if people must have these small lights, then
6 halogen lamps, 50W each = 300W.
6 LEDS, 5W each = 30W.
270 watts less, which if used for just 4 hours a day will pay for themselves in a year, and in reality sooner as that doesn't include the cost of replacing the halogen lamps when they fail.
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I agree with mfarrow that MR16 Halogens have a better efficacy then their equivalent GU10 - however they have a worse efficacy than their equivalent LED's.
In terms of cost comparisons remember you will also need to budget for a power supply (transformers) for the 12v lamps and regular replacement of the halogen lights - they normally last around 1000hrs.
Personally I would go for GU10 LED's with a wide beam angle. Most Halogens MR16 or GU10 have narrow beam angles of around 40 ° these LEDS have a beam angle of 120 ° and I have been fitting them for nearly two years without any complaints.
http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights...umens-45-watts-equiv-best-internet-price.html
In terms of positions in the ceiling as said 500/600mm from the edge and then as you want though you will need to be guided by beams etc and if you do go down the 12v route you need to bear in mind that some transformers limit the distance between transformer and the light (sometimes less than a metre).
For your bathroom the same measurements can apply but remember that you will breaking into the barrier between you bathroom and the roof space so you will need to fit lamp units specifically for bathrooms and avoid covering them with roof insulation.
In terms of cost comparisons remember you will also need to budget for a power supply (transformers) for the 12v lamps and regular replacement of the halogen lights - they normally last around 1000hrs.
Personally I would go for GU10 LED's with a wide beam angle. Most Halogens MR16 or GU10 have narrow beam angles of around 40 ° these LEDS have a beam angle of 120 ° and I have been fitting them for nearly two years without any complaints.
http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights...umens-45-watts-equiv-best-internet-price.html
In terms of positions in the ceiling as said 500/600mm from the edge and then as you want though you will need to be guided by beams etc and if you do go down the 12v route you need to bear in mind that some transformers limit the distance between transformer and the light (sometimes less than a metre).
For your bathroom the same measurements can apply but remember that you will breaking into the barrier between you bathroom and the roof space so you will need to fit lamp units specifically for bathrooms and avoid covering them with roof insulation.
Thanks for all the replies. I am putting the gu10s in on advice from the electrician. At least that's what I thought he said, is there a gu15? What ever they are there is no transformer. The first fix has been done, is that an is issue if I change my mind? I assume if I want more light this won't be a problem as they can still get access from above. It is to sell on so running costs are not a huge concern, what looks good is though being a decent sort of bloke I would rather put something in that is best for the job and whoever buys the house will be happy with.
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I was surprised when I first saw this statement but when I looked into it I found it was true. However the saving is very small and there are so many things against the MR16 that in the main the GU10/GZ10/L2 fitting has replaced the MR16. The GZ10 holder will take all types, the GU10 holder will not take the GZ10 lamps this is because the GZ10 allows more heat out of the back of the lamp specially designed to not get the item being lit too hot with Cold Cathode and LED versions this is really no longer required. The L2 version will only allow use of LED lamps if fact many LED lamps will not fit them they are to satisfy council inspectors on new builds.
The lamps as prime lighting rely on shining onto a white surface which will reflect the light most floors are not white so shining on the floor most the light is lost. So correctly positioned shining on a white surface with correctly selected angle of light 4 x 50W would be ample. However very often they are not correct angle and don't shine on a white surface and as a result look like a planetarium and are extremely poor.
Lighting is an art and one can walk into a designer kitchen and they do really look good but in the main using a more conventional light which does not require the light to be reflected from white areas will do a far better job for the general lighting and little spots are an addition to light special areas like the work tops. Again skill is required to ensure ones own body does not stop the light reaching the work top.
Swapping tungsten for LED or Cold Cathode is a problem as the angles of the beam are often different. They are spot lights so one expects a spot but both the LED versions I bought do not give the angle of light and are quite narrow compared with tungsten. So using LED likely you will need more lights not to get the amount of light but to get the spread of light required.
Also high power LED are expensive but lower power is more reasonable I bought 3 LED lamps at 2W each in the supermarket for under £10 but to light a kitchen I would be looking at more like 10 lamps not 4 using 2W LED versions. Specially as a tight beam.
Mothers kitchen I used a 2D lamp in centre for general lighting then extras for work top and cooker the round lamp looks reasonable in the centre but my kitchen still uses florescent strip lights utility looking but work very well. The kitchen has limited natural light so lights always used even during the day and I have no work area special lighting just not required. There is a good reason why professional work places use florescent lighting it is good and efficient and not using florescent because it does not look as good is a trade off where you then have to accept poorer lighting.
I would look at the folded florescent tube as with the 2D lamps as a good trade off between good lighting and reasonable looks. I will admit it was fitted in my mother kitchen because there were no earth wires to lights so could not use metal backed fittings but the HF 22W lamp has really done well and I would if re-doing my own kitchen consider swapping to 2D.
If you do go for florescent then I would select the electronic HF type as less flicker tubes last longer and not affected by over or under voltage so come on quicker and use less power.
The efficacy is nearly double; 12V vs 240V. Be careful you're not reading an American website.
Let's hope that you don't get too many of the increasingly large number of buyers who don't like swiss cheese ceilings, particularly don't like downlighters in bathrooms, and who will either not want to know or will factor in the cost of replacing the ceiling when making an offer.
I always take advice, though sometimes it is difficult when it conflicts. My estate agent friend who knows the local market inside out tells me the affluent upwardly mobile buyers who will hopefully pay me top dollar love spots! I may come to regret taking that advice but punters seem to be fighting over houses in this area at the moment so I could probably have got away with a cheap pendant.
I have learned that lighting is a complicated business though.
I have learned that lighting is a complicated business though.
Firstly...
no-one's arguing they aren't, are they?
Next, the reason I say that you'll never get the payback with LED lamps is that when one of them fails, you'll need to get another of the same/similar type to replace it. The depreciation in the existing lamps can make the replacement stand out like a saw thumb or, even worse, if the existing lamp is no longer manufactured then a new one with similar, but of course, different characteristics will need to be procured. If you don't want the lighting to look odd, you'll then need to replace all of the lamps on that ceiling.
Then, there is the inevitable situation where manufacturers are producing their own pre-installed luminaires. I can understand the logic behind this where space is at a premium, but for the majority of applications, particularly downlights, the cost saved at installation time will just lead to increased cost and hassle for maintenance.
Lastly, and by no means least, is the subject (or rather art) of dimming. Whilst this may be fairly easily achieved with electronic LED lamps and normal dimmers, electronic dimmers for use in lighting control systems are regularly accompanied with notices from manufacturers giving a minimum wattage or specification for the load, in much the same way as electronic transformers. Replacement or retrofitting of lamps in these installations can prove problematic, and the results unpredictable.
no-one's arguing they aren't, are they?Next, the reason I say that you'll never get the payback with LED lamps is that when one of them fails, you'll need to get another of the same/similar type to replace it. The depreciation in the existing lamps can make the replacement stand out like a saw thumb or, even worse, if the existing lamp is no longer manufactured then a new one with similar, but of course, different characteristics will need to be procured. If you don't want the lighting to look odd, you'll then need to replace all of the lamps on that ceiling.
Then, there is the inevitable situation where manufacturers are producing their own pre-installed luminaires. I can understand the logic behind this where space is at a premium, but for the majority of applications, particularly downlights, the cost saved at installation time will just lead to increased cost and hassle for maintenance.
Lastly, and by no means least, is the subject (or rather art) of dimming. Whilst this may be fairly easily achieved with electronic LED lamps and normal dimmers, electronic dimmers for use in lighting control systems are regularly accompanied with notices from manufacturers giving a minimum wattage or specification for the load, in much the same way as electronic transformers. Replacement or retrofitting of lamps in these installations can prove problematic, and the results unpredictable.
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