How Much

[fattony]

After reading Freds post about pricing up his plastering job it got me thinking, I never knew plasters could earn £200 a day, and generally thats more then I charge as an electrician. I've recently done a job charging the customer £150 a day, I would have done it on a price but wasn't sure how long it would take me etc, and to be honest I felt guilty asking for my £150, but maybe thats cheap Im not sure hence my post.

My location is kent and ideally most of my jobs will be on a price but I will take a day rate as well but am i selling myself short?

Cheers

 

[breezer]

only you can answer that one.
(selling yourself short)

truth is you will never get anywhwere beingself employed for too long, you have to expand, and become the employer

 

[WoodYouLike]

Pricing for labour (whatever labour) is always 'difficult' There are various 'rules' or principles you can keep.
One is (specially if self-employed) to calculate all the cost for living (rent, food, utilities, savings, insurance etc, etc, etc.). Then try to calculate the number of hours on a yearly base you will be able to work for money. (i.e. not calculating the hours you spend pricing up a job - if there's is no go-ahead on the quote you're not getting paid for those hours).
Divide your total 'costs' by the total hours per year = minimum hourly rate (times 8 or 9 hours = minimum daily rate). And that's what you are 'worth'.

Then also, can I direct you to a interesting blog-post about happily underpaid?. Talks about a different but excellent principle.

 

[DESL]

I'll employ you at those rates and I'd still make a profit.

Seriously - in the SE £35 an hour, £250 a day, £1000 a week

 

[Softus]

truth is you will never get anywhwere beingself employed for too long, you have to expand, and become the employer

That isn't the truth. It's a bit like the opposite of the truth.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Softus, in a way I agree with Breezer. It's a mind-set. An employer will know (out of profit calculations) what an employee should 'bring-in' = what should be invoice to the customer.

If your self-employed and you change your mind-set to that of an employer (employing just your self) the argument is changed.

Or that is at least how I read Breezer's comment.

 

[Thermo]

I'll employ you at those rates and I'd still make a profit.

Seriously - in the SE £35 an hour, £250 a day, £1000 a week

do you do a four day week then? or should it be £1250 a week?

 

[Softus]

WoodYouLike, I see your point - self-employed people who take seriously the running of their business tend to regard themselves as an employer with only one employee.

Since that mind-set is forced upon those with incorporated companies, it could only be the sole traders who breezer believes "will never get anywhere", and of course only some of them. This isn't the the black and white situation that he presented, hence it isn't the truth.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Since that mind-set is forced upon those with incorporated companies, it could only be the sole traders who breezer believes "will never get anywhere", and of course only some of them. This isn't the the black and white situation that he presented, hence it isn't the truth.

I'll leave it to Breezer to answer that, but could you explain more about what you mean with
"Since that mind-set is forced upon those with incorporated companies"

 

[Softus]

In order to receive a salary from an incorporated company, one has to be employed, which, for the employer, brings about the full regalia of Employment Law, tax and National Insurance.

If a person is both the owner of the company and the employee, which is the case for every lone tradesperson who isn't a sole trader, then that person is forced to both be aware of the relationship between employer and employee, and to be conscious of the cost of that employment to the business both in overheads and direct costs.

 

[WoodYouLike]

OK, thanks Softus, that makes it clearer.

But that's not the mind-set I was talking about (Employment law for one). The mind-set is to think as an employer in regards of calculating proper hourly, daily rates - even if you are self-employed. If you do that, you're bound to think more 'commercial', to grow quicker (make more profit) and in the end perhaps end up as a real employer (and then all the other items you mentioned come into it)

Hope this makes my comment more clear to you

 

[JohnD]

don't forget there is a difference between the number of hours in a year, and the number of revenue-earning hours you will work.

Subtract holidays, sickness, training, paperwork, time spent estimating and visiting potential customers who never give you any work, unpaid callbacks if you make a mistake, time chasing bad payers.

There is also a difference between money charged to clients and money that ends up in your pocket.

From your anticipated earnings subtract the cost of tools, van, pension, insurance, bad debts etc.

You need to earn your desired annual income in about 200 days.

You need to have some savings and insurance for time you cannot work due to sickness or injury.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Then try to calculate the number of hours on a yearly base you will be able to work for money. (i.e. not calculating the hours you spend pricing up a job - if there's is no go-ahead on the quote you're not getting paid for those hours).
.

 

[JohnD]

it must be true then.

 

[Softus]

Hope this makes my comment more clear to you

Not really, because I was never unclear.

The mind-set you describe is exactly the one I've been writing about, so I don't know why you think they're different.