Ideal Boiler Mini C24 intermittent working

[r.sykes]

My Ideal Mini C24 boiler tripped the main circuit breaker this morning. Not sure if it was the hot water or the central heating that did it.

Boiler is about 3.5 years old, was Corgi serviced on 5 November 2007 (apparantly only thing wrong was pressure needed adjusting, which he did), and had been unused for a few days over Christmas, until yesterday evening (when it was working fine).

I reset the circuit breaker, but the boiler's standby light didn't come on at all.

I then changed the boiler's external fuse and the standby light then did come on, doing 1-second flashes on and off for a very short time. A flame started when the hot water tap was turned on, but went out after a few seconds.

Turned the external switch where the external fuse is, off and on again. Tried boiler again, but again the standby light only came on (1-second flashes) for a short time, and this time no flame at all.

Left it for a few hours before trying again: this time the standby light came on, one-second flashes, and the flame lit up, and the boiler produced enough hot water for a bath. Also the CH came on for about half an hour. Then the flame cut out and the standby light went off.

This is first problem boiler has had (apart from recently the shower does not get hot enough unless you run it slowly. The bath has only ever been hot enough if you run the tap slowly. The Corgi engineer said if the shower wasn't hot enough it wasn't the boiler, but the internal workings of the shower (Triton Combi HP) that was at fault.

The pressure, I have noticed during this problem, keeps changing. It starts off about 1.25 bars then goes up to 2 bars before flame cuts out and standby light goes off. The temperature seems to be around 35.

I hope this is enough info for a very nice person to tell me what the problem is, and if it's something I could fix or would I have to get an engineer out?

Thanks very much!

Ruth

 

[gas4you]

It is normal for the pressure to rise between the values you have given when the rads get hot.

It sounds like there is an intermittent fault and if this is blowing the 3 amp fuse, I would suspect either the fan or the pump.

1 second flashes are normal operation also.

It sounds as though it could be overheating and cutting out, which could tie in with the pump.

I have had to replace several pumps on these, but so far not a fan.

The poor water delivery in the bath is probably due to it only being a 24Kw combi, as I always say, I never fit these for customers because of this.

I think you need an engineer back to check it over.

 

[r.sykes]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Best wishes

Ruth

 

[Agile]

If you are really safe to fiddle inside then I suggest you remove the diverter valve motor and see if the bottom is wet as that can cause earth leakage trips.

If thats the case then the gland has to be replaced and ideally the dirty water treated. The motor might dry out but would be better replaced to prevent future problems..

In addition you might have a blocked plate HE. Thats evidenced when the temp dial goes over 65°C on hot water delivery.

Both those faults would be caused by the same factor of dirty water!

I dont rate your CORGI very highly!

Tony Glazier

 

[r.sykes]

Hi - thanks for your reply.

An engineer came out yesterday and indeed it was leaking water that was the problem, and he said it needs a new gland nut, pcb and pump flow motor. He didn't mention dirty water, or treating dirty water. I did ask him if there were any preventative measures to be taken to stop it going again, but he said these things just 'go'.

If it's not too much bother, could you explain about dirty water (sorry I know nothing about plumbing!!), how it gets dirty and how you clean it!!?

Do you think the servicing engineer should have spotted this coming when it was serviced in November? I don't remember him opening up the area where this problem is.

Thanks for the other tip, however the temperature does not go that high, maybe 40 at the most.

Thanks very much!

Ruth

 

[gas4you]

On a normal yearly service this fault, unless evident at the time, would not normally be picked up.

Obviuosly you look at all visible joints to check for leaks, but if nothing was showing he wouldn't know it was there.

It's a bit like having your car serviced then 2 months later the starter motor packs up. It would be nothing to do with the service.

 

[Agile]

Its not clear what he is referring to!

I would be very surprised if you really needed a new PCB or pump !

Has he already changed these?

How much have you paid or are going to pay?

I suspect that he is fleecing you but without know exactly what parts are involved its difficult for me to be sure. Can you describe them or where they are located or their part numbers?

I suggest you keep the replaced parts and get them to me and I can test/inspect them for you.

If I was servicing your boiler I would have checked the diverter valve gland because its a common fault when the water is dirty. But as Dave says its not something most people servicing your boiler would check.

Tony

 

[r.sykes]

Hi - thanks for both those replies.

Tony - Nothing has been changed yet, as the parts are on order. Re: payment, they charge 85 an hour plus parts (I forgot to ask how much the parts would be!!). I will phone them tomorrow about that.

I am not there at the moment to check exactly where the parts were or their numbers. Thanks for offering to look at the replaced parts, may well take you up on the offer of testing/inspection!

Anyway:

PCB: he showed me this and a bit of it did look burnt out - it had gone an orange/brown colour in one area.

Pump: it was the Pump Flow Motor he said needed replacing, is this the same as the Pump you referred to?

If you are interested in quote info, FYI I tried a couple of other places, one charged 65 an hour, the other 85 an hour, although to come out on an Emergency Day which they considered New Years Eve (the day I rang up) to be, it would have been 140 per hour. This is in SE London. I used yellow pages on line for all these.

For the service in November it was 50. This guy was via word of mouth, unfortunately he had his mobile switched off so couldn't use him this time.

Thanks both for your comments, it is really useful and much appreciated.

Ruth

 

[Agile]

The Hoeywell ignition PCB on the right hand side ALWAYS looks discoloured where the resistors get warm EVEN WHEN NEW IN THE BOX !!!!! Price of a replacement about £88.

There is nothing called a "pump flow motor" !!! There is a silver pump a larger round thing on the right. Thats not likely to need replacing! About £100 if original manufacturers part or much less if a generic one is used.

The part I suspected is the black plastic cased diverter valve motor at the left hand side on top of the brass diverter valve. About £40.

In addition the gland under the diverter valve motor about £20.

£55 to service is reasonable as that what we charge!

If we went to a repair on one of these we would bring all the parts with us to do a one visit repair rather than leaving you for days without any heating or hot water. I am surprised that anyone puts up with that!

Tony

 

[r.sykes]

Hi Tony

Well, I suppose we put up with it because we don't know any better!

Maybe I didn't remember what he said properly about the pump.

I have just had the quote for the labour and parts, including the first diagnostic visit: this is 384.43, and it will 3 days or so after I have confirmed I want to go ahead because they have to order the parts I suppose. I have asked them to split the quote into labour and parts for me before I agree it.

I should think I am going to have to pay 85 whatever for the first visit, so presumably it is not worth ringing round trying to get a better quote?

I would ask you for a quote but I am not sure if you would want to come down to Surrey Quays area?

Thanks for all the info

Ruth

 

[Agile]

You are outside our normal operating area of north of the river however I dont like to see people being ripped off.

Of course in your case I dont really know exactly what they intend to replace although the ignition PCB does not sound to be at fault anmd this "flow pump" is an unknown!

Email me via my profile when you get their breakdown and we can discuss the problem.

Tony