Ideal Minimiser FF60 fires up and flames out.

[Papion]

My central heating is a conventional system with CH feed tank in the loft, a pump next to hot water tank, 3 way valve, a hall temp. rotary controller, a “Ideal Minimiser FF60 fanned flue” boiler which is now obsolete.

The boiler starts with fan running, ignition on (sparking) then fire up (gas burning) for about 3 seconds and flames out. This cycle repeats it self several times until the red Led light on the PCB ( marked running) come on to stop the boiler running (fan stop). After resetting by either switching off the main or the timer controller or boiler temp. rotary knob, this whole scenario repeats again and again.

The 3 way valve, the pump and the hall temp controller are working normally.

The PCB was changed to no avail. Ideal Boiler custom support would not send me installation and servicing manual. The equivalent boiler is Ideal Icos HE 30. www.idealboilers.com. Some similarity of mine can be found in other Ideal boiler manuals in http://www.idealboilers.com/docs/pdf/classic_se_ff_sl_manual.pdf http://www.idealboilers.com/docs/pdf/classic_se_ff_sl_manual.pdf

There are several sensors in the boiler.

The Any suggestion is grateful.

How to upload photos of my boiler n the post.

Thanks

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

Put your email address in your profile.
Is the GC number 41 387 19
I have the MI's and can send you them.

 

[Papion]

It is indeed GE 41 387 19.

I have update my profile with my e-mail address.

Many thanks

 

[Water Systems]

My central heating is a conventional system with CH feed tank in the loft, a pump next to hot water tank, 3 way valve, a hall temp. rotary controller, a “Ideal Minimiser FF60 fanned flue” boiler which is now obsolete.

The boiler starts with fan running, ignition on (sparking) then fire up (gas burning) for about 3 seconds and flames out. This cycle repeats it self several times until the red Led light on the PCB ( marked running) come on to stop the boiler running (fan stop). After resetting by either switching off the main or the timer controller or boiler temp. rotary knob, this whole scenario repeats again and again.

The 3 way valve, the pump and the hall temp controller are working normally.

The PCB was changed to no avail. Ideal Boiler custom support would not send me installation and servicing manual. The equivalent boiler is Ideal Icos HE 30. www.idealboilers.com. Some similarity of mine can be found in other Ideal boiler manuals in http://www.idealboilers.com/docs/pdf/classic_se_ff_sl_manual.pdf http://www.idealboilers.com/docs/pdf/classic_se_ff_sl_manual.pdf

There are several sensors in the boiler.

The Any suggestion is grateful.

How to upload photos of my boiler n the post.

Thanks

The ignition probes are a little sensitive on this model. If it is getting on a bit it may be worth your while replacing them as a matter of course.

Is the gas supply OK? When meter regulators play up some pre-mix burners play up - gas starvation temporarily.

Make sure the heat exchanger is cleaned once a year on this model. They don't like being dirty.

 

[Papion]

Is the gas supply OK? When meter regulators play up some pre-mix burners play up - gas starvation temporarily.

The gas is ok. In fact the CH was running happily yesterday morning. It didn't fire up in the evening on the timer with the fan kept running (no fire).

Then I checked and tightened up a loose nut holding 3 ground wires connecting the fan casing, the boiler casing and the main ground wire. The same symptom of fan kept running but no fire when I changed the fan assy before xmas and forgot to connect up the ground wire. I also ensured all connections on PCB are home in. Now, it fires up and stops after a few seconds cutting off the boiler fan, leaving the pump running and 3 way valve in auto position. This repeats itself about 5 times untill the PCB cut off the starting sequence with the PCB LED light came on. The same sequence happened after resetting the system again as mentioned in the first posting.

Make sure the heat exchanger is cleaned once a year on this model. They don't like being dirty.

I need a servicing manual to show the removal of an access cover to clean and check the ignition probe. Where are you, slug? He may be on night shift as his reply was 2 am, not long after me giving up the hope of having CH for the night.

Is the access panel of stainless steel of about 18 gauge thick on top. Removal it necessitate removal of the flue ducting?

There is a cast iron plate holding a fan assy below and ignition probe and probably the heat exchanger above. It is held by a few bolts

The heat exchanger is enclosed in a stainless steel box between the top stainless steel cover and the bottom cast iron plate.

How to gain access to the heat exchanger?

I don't know how to put photos in my post to clarify further.

Thanks a lot

 

[Agile]

If the boiler fires up for 4-5 seconds and then goes off it would normally be a failure to detect the flame and result in an ignition lockout.

It could still be other reasons though.

Its important that the ignition electrode is correctly positioned and the insulation is clean. I partially test this with my meter on the 10 Meg range but thats only a low voltage test and does not necessarily mean its Ok with a higher voltage.

These were not a very good design and few are still working. They were launched about the time Water Systems retired from Ideal.

Tony

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

You have mail

 

[Papion]

If the boiler fires up for 4-5 seconds and then goes off it would normally be a failure to detect the flame and result in an ignition lockout.

What sensor would detect the flame? I put my hand on the boiler exhaust outlet, it was warm for a few second meaning fire up then cold as the fan was still running. I ask because I am not an CH engineer and have no idea to further diagnose the problem.

You have mail

Many thanks for the servicing manual I have confident to get to the heat exchanger now.

But, right now I have to escort my family to shopping mail for any bargain.
A man will pay £2 for a £1 item he needs. A woman will pay £1 for a £2 item that she doesn’t need

Would appreciate of any more ideas.

Thanks again

 

[weareleeds]

Burner must come out every year tc clean heat ex properly especially the rim at the bottom. A major upgrade has being carried out on minimiser if you have a copper pilot tube & a copper sensing tube (which goes to burner) you will need upgrading. If sensing tube is red plastic going into gas valve chamber it is ok

 

[nickso]

if its not the flame sense probe or blocked heat exchanger then you really need to get someone to check the burner pressure.

if its very low and sucking or blowing on one of the gas valve sense tubes gets it going ive always found it to be the gas valve.

 

[Papion]

if you have a copper pilot tube & a copper sensing tube (which goes to burner) you will need upgrading

They are all copper tubes. Where can I get more infor on upgrading it.

if its not the flame sense probe or blocked heat exchanger then you really need to get someone to check the burner pressure.

if its very low and sucking or blowing on one of the gas valve sense tubes gets it going ive always found it to be the gas valve.

I did call several corgi repair men before Xmas, but all were off till New Year and were booked up. I will clean the burner and the heat exchanger tomorrow and update the outcome. At the mean time, it is party time in relative house which is warm and cosy.

I am looking to change the boiler in the summer. Ideal Boiler recommends Ideal icos HE 15 costing around £670 plus VAT. Any one can recommend a good corgi guy around Gatwick airport area. How much roughly is the workmanship. Is £800 suffice for his few days of work.

Have a Happy New Year

 

[corgiman]

bet ya it just needs servicing, when the heat exchanger blocks up the burner uses all the availible oxygen really kwickly

also cheak the burner gasket o ring if thats split it plays silly beggars with the gas air mix

I hate these things

 

[ChrisR]

Ideal Boiler recommends Ideal icos HE 15 costing around £670 plus VAT.

They would say that, wouldn't they?
Not very many others would. If you're unlucky they can be awful things.

How much roughly is the workmanship. Is £800 suffice for his few days of work.

Shouldn't be a problem.

 

[corgiman]

dont touched the icos

they are rubbish

 

[kevplumb]

much as it dismays me son

i have to agree