In or out

[JohnD]

the difference is that the Outists say they will not introduce border controls between the Republic of Ireland and the UK.

If this is true, how can they control entry from the EU into the UK?

Perhaps Gerry can tell us.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Perhaps Gerry can tell us.

Spot checks for vehicles at the land border, passport checks at ports and airports (which we already have). For example.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

many migrants will be discouraged to come to Britain when benefits are taken away unless they have first contributed into the system for 4 years, and most may not find jobs paying good money in order to afford very high rents in UK and in particularly in London, Councils everywhere are now getting tough on illegal immigrants able to rent accommodation, as all landlords are now required to take particulars of any new tenants, their immigration status, working status, or if they are students from overseas, they are not allowed to work for more than 20hrs, all those bogus colleges have been closed, that was hell of racket going on with these schools.

So when migrants come over and they can't find cheap rental accommodation and they can't now pack two or three families in one house as that is what used to happen, all landlords in Newham are now required have a licence with strict overcrowding rules, this will obviously impact migrants coming over in their droves,
and because of this issue, do we part away from EU, when the fact is that we now need each other more than ever before for security, and threats from hostile nations, can Britain fight alone when our Army & Navy has shrunk so much.

Scaremongers were saying Turkey may join EU, that is far from the truth for at least another 20 years and may never actually happen.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

many migrants will be discouraged to come to Britain when benefits are taken away unless they have first contributed into the system for 4 years,

We would need to leave the EU before we can impose such a change to benefits.

can Britain fight alone when our Army & Navy has shrunk so much. .

We're not alone, we're a member of NATO; defense is not an EU issue.

 

[JohnD]

Perhaps Gerry can tell us.

Spot checks for vehicles at the land border, passport checks at ports and airports. For example.

So in your opinion there will be border controls between the Republic of Ireland and the UK, so the Leavists are lying.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

So in your opinion there will be border controls between the Republic of Ireland and the UK, so the Leavists are lying.

I'm not sure random spot checks qualify as a 'control'. It's pretty 'soft touch' and not the same as a barbed-wire-fence checkpoint. But I suppose it's a matter of semantics.

 

[JohnD]

We would need to leave the EU before we can impose such a change to benefits.

"The European Commission has said it supports action by member states to tackle abuse of the benefits system by migrants but that it will not countenance restrictions on freedom of movement and labour across Europe.

The government has already tightened the rules so EU migrants have to wait three months after arriving in the UK before they can claim child benefit and child tax credits.

Migrants are also barred from claiming jobseeker's allowance after three months if they are not looking for work, and the prime minister has said he wants to go further."

"The European Court of Justice recently backed Germany's attempts to restrict unemployed migrants' rights to welfare, a ruling welcomed by the UK government as "common sense"."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30102310

Try to remember that EU laws are set by the democratically-elected MEPs and the representatives nominated by the elected governments of the constituent nations. They are not foisted on earthlings by evil alien lizards. As happens in Westminster, rules can be changed if there is sufficient political support.

But despite what the Mail and the people who are afraid of Foreigners might think,

"Less than 5 per cent of EU migrants are claiming Jobseekers’ Allowance, while less than 10 per cent are claiming other DWP working-age benefits.

On top of this, the think tank Class found that of those who claim Jobseekers’ Allowance, 91.5 per cent are UK nationals. Additionally, among unemployed migrants, only 1 per cent claim unemployment benefits, compared to the 4 per cent of unemployed UK nationals who are claimants.

Rather than being “benefit tourists”, migrants to the UK make a net contribution, as they pay more in taxes than they take out in benefits. A UCL study this month found that the UK gains £20bn from European migrants. And a study by the OECD last year found that migrants make a net contribution of over £2000 per head."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-entitled-terms-benefits-and-housing-and-when

 

[JohnD]

But I suppose it's a matter of semantics.

Free movement is one thing, controls are another. There is not a third option, like being "slightly pregnant" or "a little bit dead".

Are you suggesting that your passport checks and vehicle searches will be optional, with no fence, so people could walk or drive round them?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Try to remember that EU laws are set by the democratically-elected MEPs and the representatives nominated by the elected governments of the constituent nations.

Still that old chesnut? Thing is, the laws are not set by the MEPs they are only voted on by MEPs. But unlike Westiminster, only a small fraction of the European MEPs are voting in the British interest. They may vote against more benefits for EU workers, but you can be sure they'll be outvoted by the poorer countries.

As happens in Westminster, rules can be changed if there is sufficient political support.

European parliament is nothing like Westminster. MEPs have virtually no power to reform or repeal laws. The Comissions hold that ultimate power, but they are not elected.

Free movement is one thing, controls are another. There is not a third option, like being "slightly pregnant" or "a little bit dead".

Almost nothing is black and white, including free movement and control. A hundred cars passing unhindered across the border, and one lorry checked, can reasonably be called free movement.
We have freedom of movement within the whole of the EU, but do you think you can travel from Ipswich to Greece without being stopped even once?

 

[JohnD]

Very few of the Westminster MPs vote for what suits Ipswich alone. Do you think that is unfair? What if they did, but were biased in favour of Wherstead and against Washbrook? Should I declare myself independent?

I'm amused by your wriggling on the hook of saying that border fences, passport checks and vehicle searches are not "controls." You know as well as I do that no government will ever promise to search only one vehicle a day.

 

[DRM]

I’ve just pinched this from another sensible poster on another forum, I’m sure he won’t mind.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Very few of the Westminster MPs vote for what suits Ipswich alone. Do you think that is unfair?

Whatever MPs vote for, they are ultimately voting on bahalf of the British public only, whether its entirety or an interested fraction of it. By contrast, MEPs are voting on behalf of the public of (more or less) an entire continent.

I'm amused by your wriggling on the hook of saying that border fences, passport checks and vehicle searches are not "controls."

I'm amused by your wriggling on the hook of saying that random vehicle spot checks are the same thing as border fences and passport checks.

You know as well as I do that no government will ever promise to search only one vehicle a day.

Who said one vehicle a day? Inventing random figures and absurdities, John, presumably as straw men in preparation for some future argument?

 

[JohnD]

what a foolish cartoon.

 

[JohnD]

Spot checks for vehicles at the land border, passport checks at ports and airports. For example.

As you say, controls, not free movement.

Inventing random figures and absurdities

A hundred cars passing unhindered across the border, and one lorry checked

Yes indeed.

 

[DRM]

You mean it shows how foolish the remainers are!