Installing a few 12v goodies....

[Alz0r]

Hi everyone,

Firstly my sincere apologies for what will seem like stupid questions, I don't have a wealth of experience in automotive electrics!!!....

My new van arrives next week and I've bought a few bits to go on it. Namely a power inverter that will need connecting to the battery. Also I've bought the following :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170779411620?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLASHING-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f19f56d2e

I've got a week off over xmas so as well as fitting out the racking, I want to get these installed myself...

Im not sure where the battery will be in the new van (Renault Master). Assuming it's up in the engine bay, I will need to extend the cable to get to it - is it just a case of cutting off the croc clips and choc blocking on some more cable? If so what type of cable should I be using? It's a 1500w inverter...

Then with the work light - this will probably get mounted on the roof racking at the rear doors. Ideally I'd like a switch just inside the door to activate the light. What's the best way of running cable from the light into the van? I'm assuming drilling a hole and fitting a rubber grommet? And looking at the ebay picture, what sort of switch / cabling would I need to run back to the battery?

Finally the LED amber lighting. I'm going to mount the front lights behind the grill and the rear lights probably below the bumper. I'm assuming the best way of routing the cable would be to follow the wiring for the rear parking sensors / light clusters? Also, what sort of cabling should I get if I need more?

Cheers I'll post pics of the install if anyone is interested!

 

[Belle427]

you need to be carefull when adding inverters as they pull massive currents from the battery as they get bigger. If your inverter is 1500w it is capable of drawing 125 amps which would require big cables etc and would flatten your battery in less than 30 mins
Is it rated as 1500w constant or surge?

 

[Burnerman]

Your lighting accessories draw a fairly low current overall, and may be connected directly to the van battery....just use a 5 amp fuse for each accessory, and have the fuse as near to the positive battery terminal as you can.
Use existing grommets if possible to pass from the cab to the engine bay. If you need to drill extra holes, grommets are vital.
If you need to extend the wiring, use the same grade wire or slightly thicker stuff from a motor factors.
If you want things to be reliable, don't use crimp connectors or those bloody awful Scotchlok things....only solder.
A 1500W inverter?? You'll strand yourself mate.... how about a separate petrol generator instead?
John

 

[Alz0r]

Cheers chaps.

I don't intend to use it anywhere near 1500w 99% of the time. It's mostly just used for powering my laptop / battery chargers. I got 1500w for the odd occasion I might need to power something meaty like a drill or vacuum.

I doubt I will be soldering the cables together, what's the best alternative method?

Can you buy switches / fuses that are easy to install inline?

 

[Mursal]

As above, 1500W/12V = 125Amps
So keep the engine running, but the battery will still go flat at 125A the alternator will not give you that. With the engine running it will just take longer to flatten the battery.
Or you could fit a second battery completely isolated from the van battery just using the charging system to top it up. This way you can flatten the "inverter battery" and the van will still start on the "van" battery. Might be a bit more involved than you want?
Keep in mind at 125A you will need quite hefty leads and keep them as short as possible.

What are you going to plug into it?

 

[Belle427]

suitably sized cable is usually connected to the battery terminals via a fuse, your inverter literature should tell you the sizes.

 

[Burnerman]

Seriously, I'd get to grips with soldering and the delights of shrink wrap tubing to cover the joints....never fails!
Plenty of components out there to be had....Maplins are ok but there are more advertisers in the likes of Practical Classics mags etc.
Using an inverter to power a drill is ok in theory, but the more load the drill has, the higher the load on the inverter. Maybe its best to use an inverter to charge up a drill battery pack?
I use a 3kw petrol genny in the van when I need to - plenty of power there but the racket drives you nuts anyway
John

 

[Alz0r]

OK, I will pop into Maplins over the weekend and see how much their soldering kits are, does make sense to do it properly given how much cable I'm running.

 

[Belle427]

the problem you have is the cable size is going to be greater than 16mm squared to feed the inverter and this is almost impossible to solder correctly
correctly fitted lugs connected to the battery is the way to go

 

[Burnerman]

If this inverter is on the cards, maybe its worth following the Transit electric tipper set up (as per Mursal's suggestion really)......two batteries in series connected by heavy duty starter cable with a blocking diode preventing the van battery from draining.
John

 

[Stivino]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with the inverter idea. It's just not worth the bother. IMHO you'd be better off with something like this. http://tinyurl.com/d3tban4

 

[Mursal]

I'd say the inverter is to drive the kettle and you don't want having to start a genny every time you want a quick brew!! You might even get wet?

Blocking diodes are good, but can also be isolated using a relay controlled from the warning light wire on the alternator. So as soon as the warning light goes out (charging) the auxiliary battery gets a charge. As soon as you stop the engine (not charging) the batteries are disconnected from each other.

 

[Alz0r]

hello again all. my new van arrived yesterday, absolutely love it!

I'm going to get the electricals done first before I do the ply racking.

Please forgive me, I have some more probably very stupid questions....

I've got 3 LED strip lights, 1 LED Spot Light and 4 x LED Flashing Amber Lights...

Am I right in saying all the negatives can be wired together and grounded together? And all the positives can be wired up together and attached to the + on the battery with an inline fuse of say 5A fitted?

Can the wires be "daisy chained" together in series or do I have to run a separate cable for each positive and negative (resulting in about 8 positives and 8 negatives terminating together??).

Also how do I incorporate switches into the mix. I'd like the strip lights to have their own switch and the spot light to be on a separate switch. I've already got 3 switches ready to install. They have 3 male spades (with a small LED light in the switch)

With my invertors, what rating of cable will I need to run from the battery to the unit? One of the invertors is 1500w (although as I said it won't be used to this amount hardly ever). It needs to be sold somewhere that's open between Christmas and New Year if possible.

I've got my soldering kit now by the way Burnerman

Thanks again!

 

[Burnerman]

Errr wow
I think if it was my install, I'd be trying to keep the circuitry as reliable as possible......add on extras don't seem to be the best, weather resistant wise.
Consider buying say, a 8 way fuse box. This would be connected directly to the battery positive, (30 amp wire) and then you'd have 8 separate circuits, each individually fused. A lead from each fuse would go to a switch, and then to the lighting array as required. This fuse box should be fixed cab side of the van.
All circuits must be wired in parallel - there will be huge voltage drop otherwise.
Your three strip lights can be fed from the same fuse, if you wish. Likewise other similar fittings.
All negatives can go to the same grounding terminal - maybe a 5mm bolt, with ring terminals at the end of each wire.
As for the inverter, provide what the manufacturers instructions say - just keep the wires as short as possible.
John

 

[Mursal]

hello again all. my new van arrived yesterday, absolutely love it!

I'm going to get the electricals done first before I do the ply racking.

Please forgive me, I have some more probably very stupid questions....

I've got 3 LED strip lights, 1 LED Spot Light and 4 x LED Flashing Amber Lights...

Am I right in saying all the negatives can be wired together and grounded together? And all the positives can be wired up together and attached to the + on the battery with an inline fuse of say 5A fitted?
*
Yes, if the fuse is to small it will just blow, better to small than to big.

Can the wires be "daisy chained" together in series or do I have to run a separate cable for each positive and negative (resulting in about 8 positives and 8 negatives terminating together??).
*
Yes, you can daisy chain the supply (+) into each switch and have the dedicated switch output going to each load. So you will have the 3 switches with a fused supply going to each and the output going to the individual loads. Think you might need an earth to get the LED in the switches to come on, hence the third terminal on the switch? Wire size for 5Amps roughly 14/0.3 (see below)

Also how do I incorporate switches into the mix. I'd like the strip lights to have their own switch and the spot light to be on a separate switch. I've already got 3 switches ready to install. They have 3 male spades (with a small LED light in the switch)

With my invertors, what rating of cable will I need to run from the battery to the unit? One of the invertors is 1500w (although as I said it won't be used to this amount hardly ever). It needs to be sold somewhere that's open between Christmas and New Year if possible.
*
Inverter needs 125Amps to run at full tilt, that needs wire with around 240 strands, each strand 0.3mm diameter = 240/0.3. This is very big (starter cable) and will be difficult to install. You will also need a 125Amp fuseable link (like the 5A fuse connected as close to the positive terminal of the battery as possible) to protect the circuit. You could use 2 wires each having 125/0.3 which might be easier to install. Or you could find the largest load you will be using and work back from there. For example 750Watts would only need one 125/o.3 wire and so on.

http://www.eagleday.com/neauwi.html

Hope this helps