Is it time for a new boiler and if so what type?

[longwalk]

Hi all, am not intending to do a diy job but would appreciate some unbiased advice as us ladies often have tradesmen trying to swing one on us. Bear with me, as I want to provide as much info as might be needed.

Gloworm boiler has, I believe, been in place for 20 years. It's been serviced every year by good old british gas (engineers always say it's in good nick but point out that combi boilers are more efficient etc). Pump replaced couple of years ago. The boiler is in a porch at the side of house, so it has one of those frost stat things on it. Room thermostat is in living room. Often get air in a couple of rads so regularly bleed them off.

Over past couple of years I've noticed that it takes absolutely ages to get the house, particularly the living room, warm. Also noticed that my gas and electric usage (kw and therms not just price!) has risen over past couple of years too, even though I've not been doing anything different.

Couple of years ago, had the large double glazed patio doors in the living room replaced. So I am wondering whether these aren't up to scratch and are making the room harder to heat or whether the boiler itself needs replacing.

If general consensus is that the boiler needs replacing, what type is best as I wouldn't want a major job of it. Quite like having hot water in a tank (don't like the way hot water comes out at my daughter's who has a combi boiler). In theory, is it possible just to replace boiler and connect up to existing pipes etc? Possibly also thinking that maybe putting the boiler in the kitchen (which is actually only on the other side of the wall of the porch where it is sited at the moment) which might mean it not using as much juice because it doesn't have to keep itself warm with a frost stat?

So if any you have any thoughts welcome to hear them. Thanks

 

[clf-gas]

My thoughs would be, get a recommended local registered installer, have him/her service the boiler as it should be.
Have them either power flush the system and rads or introduce a cleaner.
once this is done have them fit a magnaclean.

That should save you around £1000 from changing boiler.

Or you could have boiler changed for a condensing boiler/system cleaned and magnaclean fitted, this will save you around £1000 over several years.

 

[mogget]

Lots of people end up with combis, I think because they're easier (and therefore cheaper) to install. Trouble is, there's no backup - if it ever goes wrong you've got no hot water. I too prefer the traditional vented cylinder, but the arguments about which system is best could go on forever!

I'll leave recommendations about specific boilers to the gas engineers. I know quite a few people who have Worcesters, and all are happy with them, but this is as a householder not an engineer. One thing I gather from this forum though is that you shouldn't buy an Ideal.

 

[swbjackson]

Actually fitting a combi in place of a standard boiler can quite often be more expensive than fitting another standard. Some installers tend to prefer them when replacing a boiler because unless you get the pipework configuration right on an open vented system you can have all sorts of problems with air ingress pumping over etc. The problem is the pipework configuration that was fine for a boiler with a cast iron heat exchanger may not be suitable for one with a low content heat exchanger.

The back up issue with combis is not too much of an issue as long as it is a good make and fitted properly. In 19 years of having a combi I've been without heating/hot water twice.

Having said that I would never push someone into having a combi unless they really want one. If you are happy with the performance of your existing hot water set up, stay with it.

It's quite possible that your boiler is getting tired and struggling to cope but don't rely on BG get a second opinion.

Mike

 

[fitz1]

Take into consideration of how much hot water is required and how often .Do you heat and store water unnecessarily.Energy efficiency comes in many forms.You should ask your friends for a recommended heating enginneer and ask for an assessment of your heating needs.

 

[mogget]

Actually fitting a combi in place of a standard boiler can quite often be more expensive than fitting another standard. Some installers tend to prefer them when replacing a boiler because unless you get the pipework configuration right on an open vented system you can have all sorts of problems with air ingress pumping over etc. The problem is the pipework configuration that was fine for a boiler with a cast iron heat exchanger may not be suitable for one with a low content heat exchanger.

Thanks for clarifying that

 

[Agile]

We charge an additional £400 to convert a system to a combi.

This is partly for reconfiguring but also to cover the pressurising issues which can arise from making an open vented rad system pressurised as this usually results in some leaks.

Tony

 

[BigBurner]

Lots of people end up with combis, I think because they're easier (and therefore cheaper) to install.

Not quite. Also:

• They give high pressure showers without pumps
• No tanks in loft
• No cylinders taking ups space.
• No complex control systems
• Superior DHW delivery - a 16.5 litre/min combi delivers 495 litres in 30 minutes. A 500 litre cylinder is very large and expensive and takes 45 mins to 1 hour to reheat.

Trouble is, there's no backup - if it ever goes wrong you've got no hot water.

If it is DHW backup you want try a in-line backup water heater for combis. Look at this thread:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=152381

Simple, small, easy and will give backup for a shower and a tap or two, until boiler back up again.

I too prefer the traditional vented cylinder,

You need to get to know more about heating and water systems.

 

[BigBurner]

If general consensus is that the boiler needs replacing,

The Broag 39C combi has a 5 year guarantee. They use primarily industry standard components and little plastic with Honeywell brass hydrobocks. The Broags are better quality than Vaillant and much cheaper. They are a well priced quality boilers having a superb control system with integrated outside weather compensation and OpenTherm control protocol control.

http://www.avantaplus.co.uk

Depending on flowrates needed, I would go for a Broag 35C or 39C combi that gives powerful showers and no pumps and gets rid of the cylinder and tanks - on last legs after 30 odd years.

But I strongly suggest you go for the Broag 39C combi using the
weather compensation - integral with boiler. Cheaper installation, cheap to run, quality and reliable. Comfort conditions will improve using the outside weather compensation.

 

[gremlin16]

The Broag 39C combi has a 5 year guarantee.

Guarennteing what?

 

[BigBurner]

The Broag 39C combi has a 5 year guarantee.

Guarennteing what?

Parts and labour the last time I looked. Best check it out of course.

 

[mogget]

I too prefer the traditional vented cylinder,

You need to get to know more about heating and water systems.

Quite possibly I do. However, on the trickle of water that is my mains supply, and the trickle of money that is my income, I think it's the best option for me. Obviously other peoples' circumstances may differ. I get quick baths, a reasonable shower, and can look after the majority of the system myself. If I had an all singing all dancing high-flow combi, and it went wrong, I'd likely have no hot water for several weeks while I got the money together to have it fixed.

I must admit also that the idea of a backup tank in line with a combi seems somewhat strange to me. Apart from getting mains pressure showers if the supply is adequate, I can't see any benefits - if you're going to have a tank anyway, vented or not, why not heat it directly (i.e., indirectly ) with a smaller, simpler, cheaper and more reliable boiler?

I'd be interested to find out your opinion.

 

[gremlin16]

Parts and labour the last time I looked. Best check it out of course.

What, Mr knownoubt, (BB) does not know.

Not in the brochures then

 

[Deleted member 105431]

If general consensus is that the boiler needs replacing,

The Broags are better quality than Vaillant .

In what way are they better quality? You are clueless.

 

[simond]

There's absolutely nothing on a Broag that appears to be better quality than a Vaillant.

Which parts exactly does BB think are superior? The plastic case with the flimsy catches? The wobbly jig? The clockwork timer? The filling loop (what filling loop?) The insulation in the casing (there isn't any).

The Giannoni Isothermic heat exchanger comes from the same manufacturer.

The Broag warranty does cover parts and labour and is conditional upon annual servicing. If BB had been involved in the fitment of a number of these units - as he claims- he would know this.

Unfortunately for him, the website does not make the terms clear and neither does the brochure, and Broag are shut today. That is why he is unusually quiet on the subject.

All talk and no trousers.