Is this a Victorian soil pipe vent?

[nishnish]

These seals/bungs that you are both referring to. Are they large enough to seal the collar of that socket or just the actual pipe size below it?
The screwfix linked Bailey Test Plugs, seem more like something that would be used temporarily?
I also don't see the need to spend £8 just to seal an opening, when newspaper and cement will do it for next to nothing.
Thanks.

 

[metalguru]

Hi there,

the ones I have used either push inside the pipe, not the collar or slide over the pipe, again not the collar.
It's only my personal preference - I need to think I might be called back one day to jet the drain so I'd rather use the bung.
Cement and newspaper would do just fine though.

 

[masona]

Why not keep it, repaint it & new grill etc ? If it was me I would keep it as within the character of your victorian property, if you do take it out, then do it carefully and sell it to the reclaim yard or ebay as there might be a lot of interest......or not!!!

 

[Nige F]

It`s probably worth more in tot - if it`s ally - than you`d get on eBay . It needs a mica flap to function properly , anyway . You wouldn`t need to jet the drain through that pipe you`d go into the interceptor manhole it connects to - then when you`re done , chuck the access plug above the interceptor in the bin

 

[nishnish]

Why not keep it, repaint it & new grill etc ? If it was me I would keep it as within the character of your victorian property, if you do take it out, then do it carefully and sell it to the reclaim yard or ebay as there might be a lot of interest......or not!!!

You've seen the pointing?
Can't fix that without removing the thing. Then is it really worth refitting?
I've been drawn to this area, because it's causing a damp patch in the corner of the cellar room about 4ft below that picture.
I hosed the mud off the collar in the pic today to get a good look at the whole thing. The hole filled with water and gave me a puddle in the cellar. It's definately coming from that area.
I fitted a new plastic airbrick on the other side of that corner, behind the gate. Yes, plastic! I want that cellar ventilated properly. The plastic looks ok so far. They can be swapped back to terracota in under an hour. Even by me, so it's hardly a character changer. Damp areas and consequent rotten joists are not keeping within the character of the house when it was finished
But the problem is beyond an airbrick alone. The wall needs attention.

 

[nishnish]

It`s probably worth more in tot - if it`s ally - than you`d get on eBay . It needs a mica flap to function properly , anyway . You wouldn`t need to jet the drain through that pipe you`d go into the interceptor manhole it connects to - then when you`re done , chuck the access plug above the interceptor in the bin

I got some of that, but you're gonna have to provide a translation for me to understand your thoughts completely
Forgive a beginner in these matters.

 

[nishnish]

the ones I have used either push inside the pipe, not the collar or slide over the pipe, again not the collar.
It's only my personal preference - I need to think I might be called back one day to jet the drain so I'd rather use the bung.
Cement and newspaper would do just fine though.

Ah ok. That makes sense.
I was thinking that an expensive plug is not worth it. After 121yrs a blockage here has not been a problem? Though I expect the 121yrs for you makes no difference; it could still block tomorrow
Leaving a possible rod point seems a worthwhile idea though. So these plastic bungs you speak of, can be easily removed later by hand (after some digging) and replaced after any rodding?

 

[metalguru]

Hi there,

I only suggested this as in the past I have come across blockages where there is no manhole and the vent drops straight onto the interceptor. If you've got a manhole then cement is fine - you can rod or jet from there.
I found a bung yesterday at B&Q warehouse for £2.00 in the clearance aisle so not too expensive.Made of rubber so easily fitted & removed.
If you want to leave it accessible and don't want to shlepp around looking for one use some old lead and make a cap - anything to stop debris dropping in. What about a plastic lid on a 2 pack filler can & bed it in gripfill? anything that fits that won't rot.
Like the idea about restoring it, I'd bet you would be the only one in the road with one of those which would be great on a period restoration.

 

[nishnish]

I only suggested this as in the past I have come across blockages where there is no manhole and the vent drops straight onto the interceptor. If you've got a manhole then cement is fine - you can rod or jet from there.

This is the only part of the drainage system I've dug up. No obvious manhole or the like anywhere. Two grids and this thing are the only points above ground. The side alley has been cemented over and the front has been flagged, so perhaps they buried a manhole cover. Sewer is under street at front.
You can see that the drain drops down under that inlet. I've not dug to follow it. Would you expect that the pipe then goes even lower than the cellar floors? I can see some 40mm plastic pipe buried in the cellar floor, which I can only presume were used by the previous owners for washing machines in the cellar. Thus the clay drain must be below the cellar floor?
Have I answered my own question?

What about a plastic lid on a 2 pack filler can & bed it in gripfill? anything that fits that won't rot.

Ok. So practically anything. Why bed it with gripfill? Be a bugger to get out again.

Like the idea about restoring it, I'd bet you would be the only one in the road with one of those which would be great on a period restoration.

Don't fancy my chances of finding another grill for it.

 

[tim00]

Why remove it? It is a period feature and so few of the mundane period features are left. Shoe scrapers and mounting spurs were almost eliminated in the mid-twentieth century and now they are highly valued - for their own intrinsic historical value, and as selling points.
If it was creating a nuisance it would be obvious,so perhaps cover/fix the grating to prevent vermin and let it be. It's apparently by the rear gate, so it's out of the way.
As a practical matter, always be cautious when removing or altering vents unless you know how, and what it's venting, it could be venting a "house trap" ie. a trap on the lateral sewer just as it leaves the property line.

 

[masona]

Why not keep it, repaint it & new grill etc ? If it was me I would keep it as within the character of your victorian property, if you do take it out, then do it carefully and sell it to the reclaim yard or ebay as there might be a lot of interest......or not!!!

You've seen the pointing?
Can't fix that without removing the thing. Then is it really worth refitting?

Can't see why the repointing can't be done round it? If you're worry about damp behind then I'm sure you can make good sand/cement behind it or put a small metal roof lip over the top somehow, if you do, make sure you're not bridging the dpc unless you don't have dpc then leave a gap on the bottom preventing bridging damp problem etc

 

[tim00]

Hi Masona, i just noticed your earlier post, as usual, you beat me to it.

Nish, just read all your posts. You would be well advised to carefully dig down to possibly investigate the state of the drainage and brickwork. Perhaps the drain is leaking, or the brickwork is gaping.But only go so far, dont open up a trench.
Sometimes it's not possible to stem penetrating water and tanking is the only option.

Given the perished state of your brickwork, re-point in a very cement light mix.

The historic injection holes are positioned way too high; they should, ideally, be below the floor joist tails. Examine the j/tails with a probe. DPC injection is typically worthless, especially in brickwork such as yours.

There will be a manhole, perhaps shared with a neighbour?

 

[nishnish]

You would be well advised to carefully dig down to possibly investigate the state of the drainage and brickwork. Perhaps the drain is leaking, or the brickwork is gaping.But only go so far, dont open up a trench.
Sometimes it's not possible to stem penetrating water and tanking is the only option.

If the drain were leaking, wouldn't the cellar stink? It's a combined soil/surface drain and the point in the picture is downstream of the soil stack.

Given the perished state of your brickwork, re-point in a very cement light mix.

After extensive reading on here, I have been doing all work with lime mortar only (no cement).
I presume that the use of no cement at all is also what you were advising? You were just making sure I wasn't weakening the bricks further with cement?

The historic injection holes are positioned way too high; they should, ideally, be below the floor joist tails. Examine the j/tails with a probe. DPC injection is typically worthless, especially in brickwork such as yours.

The ground floor is about 2ft above the level of the earth. The joist tails rest upon the course of bricks with the old DPC holes.
I realise (again from extensive reading here) that an injected DPC on such an old property is nothing but a con.

There will be a manhole, perhaps shared with a neighbour?

It is a semi, so perhaps. No idea where though, without digging pits everywhere.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

May be a chamber near the vent in question, I assume its close to the boundary with the street? Usually a manhole was built just inside the boundary, the interceptor was fitted in the outgoing pipe to the main sewer in order to 'seal off' the house drains from the main, preventing rats and 'drain air' getting into the house drains.

These vents were fitted, often find a 4" pipe couple of courses from the top, in the wall of the last chamber, that was/is connected to one of those vents. I've yet to come across a vent like that connected directly to the sewer, always seen them going to an adjacent manhole. The Victorians were paranoid about 'drain air' (believing that to be the cause of diseases rather than the effluent itself!), hence use of these vents.

Doesnt sound like effluent is getting into the cellar, water seems too clean. Dye test may give a more definate answer. Leave drains well alone unless you really have to dig, the joints on those old pipes are likely to fall apart if disturbed.

 

[Ian H]

These vents were fitted, often find a 4" pipe couple of courses from the top, in the wall of the last chamber, that was/is connected to one of those vents. I've yet to come across a vent like that connected directly to the sewer, always seen them going to an adjacent manhole. The Victorians were paranoid about 'drain air' (believing that to be the cause of diseases rather than the effluent itself!), hence use of these vents.

i was gong to say exactly the same . All the ones i've seen are usually a foot or two downstream of the M/H.