Is this good practice?

[NickStone]

This is really an electrical and plumbing question combined but since the electrical side is what I really want to know about, hope this is the right section. I've recentlty had a new kitchen installed (bought from John Lewis who also arranged the fitting.) Came home today and found a pool of water making its way across the floor from under the sink. The cause - a poorly tightened washing machine hose which had been leaking. However, when I pulled off the plinth to see what was going on, I found electrical sockets for washing machine and dishwasher only inches off the floor and - and this is what astonished me - an electrical junction box at the back of the sink almost lying in the water. Now, I know very little about electrics or plumbing, come to that (which is why I always call in the experts) but surely it's not acceptable to have a junction box under the sink where if any pipe leaks, there's a strong possibility of the box getting splashed?

 

[Richard C]

I found electrical sockets for washing machine and dishwasher only inches off the floor and - and this is what astonished me - an electrical junction box at the back of the sink almost lying in the water. Now, I know very little about electrics or plumbing, come to that (which is why I always call in the experts) but surely it's not acceptable to have a junction box under the sink where if any pipe leaks, there's a strong possibility of the box getting splashed?

Well at least it complies with the requirement for being easily accessible for maintenance!

 

[333rocky333]

afaik
1 Part p is 450mm from floor
2 Fixed to the building fabric
3 Away from pipework etc which could drip

 

[ban-all-sheds]

afaik
1 Part p is 450mm from floor

You won't find that figure specified anywhere.

2 Fixed to the building fabric
3 Away from pipework etc which could drip

Nor these requirements.

But it does sound as though the work was not reasonably safe, and is therefore unlawful.

Get onto John Lewis and tell them they need to sort it asap - they've been let down by the people who did the work just as much as you have.

 

[333rocky333]

As far as I knew
maybe not in the part P doc then


General guidance can be provided as follows:

that was extract from
IEE guide to the building regulations
Published by the IEE

 

[ColJack]

450mm minimum , 1200mm maximum is set out in part M of the building regulations.. and only applies to new builds or total refurbs..

"away from the pipes" would surely come under suitability for external influences.. if there is reasonable danger of leaks / drips then it must be suitably IP rated or put where such a danger doesn't exist.. ?

 

[securespark]

The very least you could quote is that equipment must be suited to its environment.

 

[ColJack]

I just said that....

 

[NickStone]

Thanks, Guys. I thought it couldn't be right and you've all confirmed it. That's what I wanted to know. I've now complained to JL and sent them pictures. They aren't pretty. What's silly about the washer dryer is that I left them to do it because I wasn't confident enough to do it myself - had a bit of a problem a few years back in which my whole family's mementoes (including PG tips cards from the 1960s) got soaked after a newly-connected hose leaked. Well, I suppose it's a good thing in a way. If this one hadn't leaked, I wouldn't have pulled off the kickboard and would never have seen the mess at the back.

 

[kkynaston]

can you post the pictures
As you will tell from other posts, we like pictures

 

[bengasman]

afaik
1 Part p is 450mm from floor

no, part m, only applies to new build and refurb

2 Fixed to the building fabric

no, just mechanically secure

3 Away from pipework etc which could drip

no, according to part p it is legal to put it IN the sink, as long as the wires are 25 mm away from the pipes. would not be good practice though imho.

despite the fact that nothing you have mentioned is illegal, it does seem a bit like a cowboy job.

 

[NickStone]

can you post the pictures
As you will tell from other posts, we like pictures

I know. I looked at the instructions for posting pics once and thought the process looked rather fiddly, but yes, you're right, I must get around to it.

 

[NickStone]

despite the fact that nothing you have mentioned is illegal, it does seem a bit like a cowboy job.

Well, it is John Lewis's cheapest kitchen (still came to over 8k, inc fitting) so perhaps the fitting reflects that. If I'd spent 20k, I'd probably have Mr Rolls Royce, instead of Mr Lada-with-the-door-falling-off. To be fair, the whole job does look very nice.

 

[333rocky333]

afaik
1 450mm from floor

section 8 of app doc M2 diag 22
IET wiring matters spring 2004 page 11

2 Fixed to the building fabric

IET wiring matters autumn 2004 page 13

3 Away from pipework etc which could drip

Page 7 of online part P document states
Further guidance is in the

Electricians guide to the building regulations
Published by NICEIC and ECA

All 3 items are in this book

The preface of this book
This book gives guidance on part p and on other parts of the building regulations that persons carrying out electrical installations will be expected to comply with.

 

[RF Lighting]

Did you not listen to what you have already been told?