Is this LV lighting with dimmer set up correct?

[zappastix]

Hi

Before I purchase bathroom lighting could someone just check to see if what
I want is going to work/match up?

I want to be able to dim 8 (eight);

MR16 Dichroic Halogen 12v 50watt IP65 Luminaries with individual transformers.
(All IP65's because I want them to match the shower light).

Beam Angle 60 Degree
Cap/Base GX5.3/GU5.3

I have read that you can only have 5 transformers on one circuit BUT BUT BUT BUT the
transformer below is different .

I have included the 'info' on the transformer that looks like it should work.
Which states you can have up to 10 transformers
(I know it says 10, but I would like reassurance!) ;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTYT50.html
TLC - Premium Electronic Transformer ( 0w - 50w )


The circuits can be loaded up to the total value of the lamps, not to the transformer
rating as is usual.

Unique internal architecture enables up to 10 x LT YT50`s to be used on one
dimmable circuit
(currently a maximum of 5 transformers per circuit can be used).
Transformer performs from 0W (i.e. total lamp failure) to its maximum rating
and every stage between.


Input voltage 230V 10% /50Hz
Input current 0,22A for 50W
Power range 50VA: 0-50W
Output voltage 11,5V max. 4,3A
Power factor > 0,99
Ambient temperature 0 - 40°C
Insulation class II
Casing type EC05
Input terminals quantity wire 2 x 0,5 mm2
Output terminals quantity 2 wires 1 mm2
Weight 75g
Tape of protection IPX7


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Just TWO other questions - is the following dimmer switch okay for 8 x 50w (400watts)?

Can I get away with this dimmer switch/knob?
1 Gang 2 Way 400w IQ Low Voltage Dimmer Switch?
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLQP401.html

i.e. Would I be pushing the limit at 400w when all the lights (400w in total)
are NOT dimmed?

As there is no lee-way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLQP401.html

The iQ dimmer is equipped to handle overload situations by stepping down its
output to the lamps until the load is reduced.

iQ intelligent dimmers are micro-processor controlled.
One dimmer for either mains or low voltage transformer loads
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can I install a dimmer switch inside the bathroom IF it is outside any zones and away from
and likelihood of water from the shower hitting the dimmer switch?

I was thinking of installing the dimmer switch in new stud & partition which is 1.5m away from
the nearest zone (zone 1) - and another 2m from the shower cubicle
in which the door faces the opposite direction to the dimmer switch.

I found this;

Outside the zones – anywhere outside zones 0, 1, and 2. Where water jets are not to be used
for cleaning purposes, the general rules of BS7671 apply. Here, there is no requirement
for any lighting solutions to be protected against particles or solid objects,
e.g. IPX4 – no IP rating required.

I did not want to rely on this info before running it past you guys first.

Many thanks in advance.

Stephen

 

[riveralt]

You asked a similar question on the 20th November 2010 - take the advice that was given then.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Downlights are called downlights because they light, well, down.

And they don't even light down all that well.

They certainly do not send out any light sideways - that is why they are called DOWNlights.

A GLS incandescent BULB is round and emits light out probably 320º
A downlight emits light at around 40º

A 60watt incandescent lamp will illuminate the average bathroom (lets say 3metres x 3 metres.)

To provide a similar light intensity using GU10 or MR16 lamps you may need 4-6 lamps each of 50watts. So that's 300watts or 5 times as much energy as a regular incandescent lamp - and you'll probbaly need an extra light over the mirror so you can see to scrape off your stubble.

Does that answer your question?
Are you still going to make swiss cheese out of your bathroom ceiling, with all of the steamy moisture being drawn into the roof space where it will rot your roof timbers?
Will you look at your bathroom ceiling in 3 years time (when everyone will say "oh downlights, that's soooooo last century") and try and find a plasterer who will make it look like it used to?
Or will you now think constructively about effective, alternate and energy efficient ways of lighting your bathroom?

Oh yes, and PS. Do not forget that fitting downlights in a bathroom is notifiable work which will cost you ££££££££ in building regulations paperwork (if you do it yourself) or slightly less £££££££££ if you use a registered electrician.

 

[zappastix]

RIVERALT

Maybe you should read all the post before saying that I am
asking the same questions twice.

At what point did I ask the same question?

This is a copy of the original dated 20 November 2010

START OF OLD POST

Hi

I want to install 12 volt halogen lights with individual transformers.
Along with these lights I want to add a 'pull cord dimmer'.

Above the bathroom is the loft.

I have read about 'cool beam' bulbs - and as I understand it, they
direct the heat back up in to the lamp housing/loft area.

I HAVE THREE QUESTIONS

1) Can you recommend a 35 watt or a 50 watt bulb that directs the heat
back into the room?

2) What type of bulb is this known as?

I ask because although I will make sure no insulation is near the lamp
housing I would prefer it not to get so hot and so prevent a possible hazard.

2) Does anyone know the equivalent light output of 35 watt and
50 watt bulbs, compared to say a 60 watt incandescent regular bulb?

Many thanks,

Stephen


END OF OLD POST

Anyone else who can help with this genuine enquiry would be appreciated - this is the Post Subject;

Is this LV lighting with dimmer set up correct?

Thanks.

 

[riveralt]

1) Can you recommend a 35 watt or a 50 watt bulb that directs the heat
back into the room?
2) What type of bulb is this known as?

Any with an aluminium reflector, described as aluminium / PAR / coolfit.

Downlighters should NEVER be fitted with lamps described as dichroic or coolbeam.

I ask because although I will make sure no insulation is near the lamp housing

This project is doomed, since installing these lights is notifiable work, the fee for which will be many times greater than the cost of the lights.
Regarding building regulations, big holes in the insulation isn't allowed, a majority of downlighter fittings won't comply unless additional airtight sealed covers are fitted above them, and as for energy efficiency, no halogen downlighters will comply.
Further, halogen lamps and dimmers should not be used together, as this will dramatically shorten the lamp life, and good luck finding a pull cord dimmer which can operate enough of these downlighters to actually illuminate the room, and not be incompatible with the transformers causing loud buzzing or destroying the dimmer, transformers or both.

There is no need to shout - I can hear you but......... shouting loud still doesn't change the facts. Your statements about 'getting away with it' and 'pushing the limit' highlight that you are struggling to understand what is being said to you.

The questions you are asking here are about the same subject from the 20th November and flameport amongst others gave you the answers then. Advances in technolgoy for spotlights have not changed since the 20th!
You seem to have simply ignored his advice and decided that you will now have 400w of spotlights - nothing about structural integrity of the ceiling nor the heat that is generated nor electrician or Building Control Advice.

You appear to be deadset on carrying on regardless of the advice given..........so carry on.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Was the "way" in which I quoted TTCs post unacceptable?

I'd be interested to see a rational and intelligent explanation of how the "way" I clicked the quote button, or the "way" I copied and pasted it was objectionable, and therefore how reasonable and useful it was for at least 3 people to give it a thumbs down.


****s

 

[cumbriahandyman]

****s

 

[denso13]

Was the "way" in which I quoted TTCs post unacceptable?

Ok, I'll try, bearing in mind I didn't vote it down.

Riveralt said

You asked a similar question on the 20th November 2010 - take the advice that was given then.

You replied after this quoting TTCs reply from the replies riveralt mentions above. I presume you did this because;

a) you were trying to remind the OP of his similar question although riveralt had already done that or;
b) you were trying to remind the OP of some (one) of the replies although riveralt had already pointed him in that direction or;
c) you thought the OP new about his earlier question but could not access it himself or;
d) you were so riled up by the audacity of someone asking a similar question you felt the need to reiterate a reply by riveralt

Can you not see that some people might think there is no need for this on top of riveralt's post?

And to those who might think it over the top you put

****s

 

[ban-all-sheds]

cumbriahandyman - you are one of the ones who wants to keep on and on and on and on introducing damage and disruption onto this forum because it's only what I deserve, and always because of my "attitude", never because of the content.

I agree with the above, SHEDDY gets only what he deserves, given his attitude when replying.

I don't believe anyone has voted him down because of what he has to say, but because of the way he says it.

No doubt you believe that your actions are of value and benefit to the forum - can you explain in what way?

I'm not saying that you were one of the people who voted it down, but no doubt you have a keenly developed sense of the "way" in which I write posts which makes them deserving of a thumbs down, so would you care to explain what it was about the "way" I quoted another persons post, verbatim, with no edits, additions, comments or omissions (apart from the introductory embedded quote it had) that you think was wrong?

We all know it can't have been TTCs post itself that was a problem, as that has attracted no negatives, so that doesn't leave much else.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Riveralt said

You asked a similar question on the 20th November 2010 - take the advice that was given then.

Yes, he did, but didn't provide a link to it.

You replied after this quoting TTCs reply from the replies riveralt mentions above. I presume you did this because;

a) you were trying to remind the OP of his similar question although riveralt had already done that or;
b) you were trying to remind the OP of some (one) of the replies although riveralt had already pointed him in that direction or;
c) you thought the OP new about his earlier question but could not access it himself or;
d) you were so riled up by the audacity of someone asking a similar question you felt the need to reiterate a reply by riveralt

a) riveralt didn't link to it, and as the OP hadn't carried on in the old one it was possible that he couldn't find it.
b) There was no "pointing" of a sort that would lead easily to the other topic.
c) Given (a) and (b) I thought it might be of value to quote an important and worthwhile reply from the other topic.
d) I wasn't riled up about anything.

Can you not see that some people might think there is no need for this on top of riveralt's post?

Can you not see that all the beliefs people have about the "way" I quoted TTC, and the "attitude" I had when I did it are all of their own invention?

And to those who might think it over the top you put

****s

Yup.

Is there a minimum number of irrational negative votes I have to get before I may voice that opinion?

 

[denso13]

Yes, he did, but didn't provide a link to it.

Neither did you

a) riveralt didn't link to it, and as the OP hadn't carried on in the old one it was possible that he couldn't find it.I found it easily
b) There was no "pointing" of a sort that would lead easily to the other topic.I found it easily
c) Given (a) and (b) I thought it might be of value to quote an important and worthwhile reply from the other topic.The one slating downlights? Ok different argument
d) I wasn't riled up about anything.Fair enough

Can you not see that all the beliefs people have about the "way" I quoted TTC, and the "attitude" I had when I did it are all of their own invention

I can see it both ways, if that's ok.

Is there a minimum number of irrational negative votes I have to get before I may voice that opinion?

No, but are you the only one that gets to voice an opinion?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, he did, but didn't provide a link to it.

Neither did you

Of course I did - the blue part of a quote saying "xxxxxx wrote:" is always a link to the post being quoted.

No, but are you the only one that gets to voice an opinion?

Certainly not.

I wish far more people would voice opinions which can be discussed/debated/argued with than just gave irrational thumbs down.

 

[denso13]

Of course I did - the blue part of a quote saying "xxxxxx wrote:" is always a link to the post being quoted.

Damn, you got me there. Except if you click on the one above it doesn't. Ok I'm clutching at straws now

I wish far more people would voice opinions which can be discussed/debated/argued with than just gave irrational thumbs down.

You're doing it again! You might think it's irrational but some don't!

 

[zappastix]

Blimey I didn't know I'd cause so much trouble - tetchy or what.

All the advice from the post of the 20/11/2010 were taken on board and noted.

It would seem that Ban All Sheds does not like halogen lighting - I get it.

In fact I've read so many other post's regarding LV halogen lighting where Ban All Sheds
runs it down that I just skim over them now.

My latest post might have been a tad longwinded, I do this so the hopefully helpful person
will have all the facts.

These are the three questions I asked - once again I cannot see how they match what
I have asked before, apart from the fact they are to do with LV downlighters in a bathroom.

Basically I just wanted reassurance before I brought online.

Clearly, I am not going to receive that here.


Q1 By using this particular brand/type of transformer can you confirm that I can use
up to 10 transformers on the same circuit?

Transformer = TLC - Premium Electronic Transformer ( 0w - 50w )
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTYT50.html


Q2 Although this dimmer switch states 400watts is it wise/acceptable to take it to the limit of 400 watts?

Dimmer Switch = 1 Gang 2 Way 400w IQ Low Voltage Dimmer Switch
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLQP401.html


Q3 A question about ZONES - can one install a dimmer switch inside a bathroom if it is outside any zones?

I finished off by saying;

I did not want to rely on this info before running it past you guys first.

Clearly these questions are not related to the post of the 20th.
It would seem I have entered/walked into an ongoing spate between you all.

Thank you for your previous advice, it has been most helpful, but it might be best if you ignore
any electrical posts I might post in the future.

I will try to remember to post electrical questions elsewhere, but continue to use DIYNOT for all other building answers.