Japanese (110V) electric toilet

[borbs]

Looking to install one of these in the UK.
There's quite a bit of information relating the the USA here http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?2+48109
But little about the UK. These are not easily available for the European market and those that are are about 2-3 times the price of importing from Japan.

In terms of the electrics
110V
about 500W

Supplied with a two-prong Japanese plug (RCD attached) with separate earth wire http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/OutletPlug.jpg

My plan was to fit a 1000W 230 to 110V transformer in the loft and then run down a cable to the bathroom going into a standard flex outlet plate and then attach this to the toilet (after cutting the Japanese plug off). The transformer would, of course, be attached to a RCD protected circuit.
Other options would be to obtain a Japanese socket and fit this in the bathroom rather than the flex outlet plate.

Any better ideas?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In terms of the electrics
110V
about 500W

And 60Hz.

My plan was to fit a 1000W 230 to 110V transformer in the loft and then run down a cable to the bathroom going into a standard flex outlet plate and then attach this to the toilet (after cutting the Japanese plug off).

No fuse?

The transformer would, of course, be attached to a RCD protected circuit.

Why "of course"?

Any better ideas?

 

[borbs]

No space for a conventional bidet - is a small ensuite.

Japan is 50-60Hz depending on region so they are compatible with both.

 

[ericmark]

There are a number of problems but I am sure a good electrician could work around them.

1) British rules would be hard to comply with. Some of the requirements for shuttered sockets for example.
2) One would need to consider how to include safety featured with respect to earthing. With an isolation transformer connecting any output to earth will not cause an overload or trip any RCD unless another output is earthed. It may be safer to be earth free.

The idea of having a wash built into the toilet is common in most Muslim countries they are far more fastidious than us on cleanliness. You only need to go to Turkey to where the traditional hole in the floor is not used there is a tap to spray water at one while seated. There is no electrical connection to these.

The problem will be the LABC as the scheme providers required members to comply with BS7671 and to not follow the regulations will required the LABC to issue a completion certificate. The LABC can for example allow one to fit Euro sockets throughout the house following German regulations instead of British but most scheme providers will not and this is likely the big problem.

Transformers also use power when nothing is being used so likely it would also require some switching so it only runs when required.

As I say not impossible but not sure it's really worth all the effort to get it passed.

 

[conny]

Looking to install one of these in the UK.
There's quite a bit of information relating the the USA here http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?2+48109
But little about the UK. These are not easily available for the European market and those that are are about 2-3 times the price of importing from Japan.

In terms of the electrics
110V
about 500W

Supplied with a two-prong Japanese plug (RCD attached) with separate earth wire http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/OutletPlug.jpg

My plan was to fit a 1000W 230 to 110V transformer in the loft and then run down a cable to the bathroom going into a standard flex outlet plate and then attach this to the toilet (after cutting the Japanese plug off). The transformer would, of course, be attached to a RCD protected circuit.
Other options would be to obtain a Japanese socket and fit this in the bathroom rather than the flex outlet plate.

Any better ideas?

http://photos2.fotosearch.com/bthumb/ULY/ULY078/u14741126.jpg

and

http://media1.picsearch.com/is?FjwDB-4LIhr-kYPd4HYbKlKRscADbMZWzmL9a_oWHmI

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The idea of having a wash built into the toilet is common in most Muslim countries they are far more fastidious than us on cleanliness.

Actually they originate from an environment with not only no toilet paper but little spare water for personal hygiene, hence the custom of not eating, or passing someone something, with the left hand, because that was reserved for activities which made it unclean.

Just like dietary laws and burial timescales, which they share with other semitic races, it all comes down to practical realities of life in a Middle Eastern climate with no refrigeration and insufficient water.

 

[borbs]

This is quite an interesting problem. I have tried a few local electricians without much success. It must be possible to do it safely as these devices are used extensively in the far east and are also found in the USA.
It is not clear if the toilets accept 240-100v - much if Asia runs on 230v. If so it is easier. It seems that they are supplied with a RCD built into the plug so the Japanese must have standard sockets in their bathrooms, in common with most of the world.

If that was the case and they could take a 230v supply I would be tempted to source a Japanese socket and use that. Another option would be to have the transformer in the loft with a RCD on the 110v supply from that to the machine

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This is quite an interesting problem. I have tried a few local electricians without much success. It must be possible to do it safely as these devices are used extensively in the far east and are also found in the USA.

That means nothing.

It is not clear if the toilets accept 240-100v

Well it was to you earlier - you said:

In terms of the electrics
110V

Why did you say that and why are you now changing your mind?

It seems that they are supplied with a RCD built into the plug

There is no RCD built into this plug:

If that was the case and they could take a 230v supply I would be tempted to source a Japanese socket and use that.

And on your application for Building Regulations approval you would explain how that would comply with P1 how, exactly?

Another option would be to have the transformer in the loft with a RCD on the 110v supply from that to the machine

Referenced to what?

And how, physically, would you install a 110V RCD anyway?


Please keep trying to find an electrician to do this for you - you don't know enough to be safe.

If you can't find an electrician give up the idea of having an electric toilet.

 

[londonboy]

You can buy these in the UK. Ive fitted some for the disabled.

 

[SteNova]

took some googleing but i found a 230v one on a french site!

http://www.washlet.fr/index_uk.php

 

[borbs]

Because it isn't clear from what is to be found on the web wether or not the few for sale in the uk are specially made or whether they are the same as those sold in Japan.

That plug is an example of a Japanese set up. The washlet is supplied with a plug with a built in RCD with a trailing earth. The American site I linked to explains such. 110v rcds can be sourced from specialist suppliers like farnell.

I have no intention of asking a council jobs worth for any approval for what I do with my property. My next ort if call will be an industrial electrician who will be more familiar with different voltages than a big standard domestic one.

 

[londonboy]

How do you know none of the forum members aren't industrial electricians? You will get the same reply as you've had here.

 

[borbs]

Because nobody has come up with a solution. I do not see how it is impossible to come up with a solution to fit a 110v supply to a bathroom

 

[Spark123]

It is because it is a crap idea. It is a much better idea to go out and buy the proper one for the job which is made for use in our country.
And yes, I am an industrial electrician.

Because it isn't clear from what is to be found on the web wether or not the few for sale in the uk are specially made or whether they are the same as those sold in Japan.

I think common sense has to prevail. They use 110v, we use 230v. They are different.

 

[ericmark]

It is not impossible to fit a 110 volt supply.

However the regulations are quite tight on what is permitted in a bathroom. (That's a room with bath or shower having a loo in the room does not make it a bathroom). From what you have said I think you do want to fit in a bathroom rather than a WC room?

The problem is this regulation:-
701.55 Current-using equipment
In zone 0, current-using equipment shall only be installed provided that all the following requirements are met:
(i) The equipment complies with the relevant standard and is suitable for use in that zone according to the
manufacturer's instructions for use and mounting
(ii) The equipment is fixed and permanently connected
(iii) The equipment is protected by SELV at a nominal voltage not exceeding 12 V a.c. rms or 30 V ripple-
free d.c.. the safety source being installed outside zones 0, 1 and 2.
In zone l, only the following fixed and permanently connected current-using equipment shall be installed, provided
it is suitable for installation in zone I according to the manufacturer's instructions:
(i) Whirlpool units
(ii) Electric showers
(iii) Shower pumps
(iv) Equipment protected by SELV or PELV at a nominal voltage not exceeding 25 V a.c. rms or 60 V ripple-
free d.c., the safety source being installed outside zones 0, 1 and 2
(v) Ventilation equipment
(vi) Towel rails
(vii) Water heating appliances
(viii) Luminaires.

As you see what is permitted is listed and your item does not appear in the list of permitted items. This gives an electrician a problem as his scheme provider will normally insist he complies with the IET/BSI regulations. However they are not law and even though it's not permitted under BS7671 it is up to the Local Authority Building Control as to is they will issue a completion certificate. Now they are law. So if you really want one you need to get all details and take them to your LABC and ask them will they issue a certificate if you get it installed.

If they say yes them armed with that you can approach an electrician and say I have had permission will you fit it. But I am sure you can see why no electrician wants to spend the time and energy to get LABC to OK the fitting when if they refuse he will not get paid.

I would not want to spend time (which is money) getting the OK to fit it. I will guess that is the problem. The logistics of safely fitting is not the problem it's the getting of the completion certificate from LABC with is the problem.