Japanese (110V) electric toilet

[Spark123]

I'm confused as to why a toilet seat would be in Zone 0 or 1, Zone 0 being the bathtub or shower basin and zone 1 directly above zone 0 //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:bathroom-zones

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

I assume this comes under (in orig red book) 702.410.3.4.2

 

[ericmark]

I'm confused as to why a toilet seat would be in Zone 0 or 1, Zone 0 being the bathtub or shower basin and zone 1 directly above zone 0 //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:bathroom-zones[/QUOTE]
I agree it may not be within the zones. However considering the problems he has encountered getting the device installed I would assume there is something a little more involved than just fitting a transformer.

Although he has given links to the device there was no details on how it worked. I would assume a little more involved than the pump of a power shower.

To remove the need for toilet paper I would assume also some hot air system to dry ones bum?

It could of course be another problem. I have in the past had problems where some one wanted to use a Yellow brick transformer to work the control circuits of a large machine and I had a problem trying to get the guy to understand I could not use a centre tapped device with centre tap bonded internally to earth and it would also overheat or use excessive power at least due to the generally poor design of the yellow bricks.

A proper transformer is about 4 times the size and price of a yellow brick type so one can understand why people want to use the bricks.

But until more detailed information is give we are all guessing on why local electricians will not take on the work. There seemed to be quite a large control panel so clearly it has a lot more than plain water spray used with many loo's.

 

[RF Lighting]

Well I reckon it can be done, but it's not going to be easy.

You could install a transformer in the loft, but it want's to be a proper isolating step down transformer, not a yellow site transformer.

Now leaving this powered all the time isn't a good idea, as apart from it wasting electricity for no reason, it's going to get warm and could be quite a fire risk. Also, it's probably going to buzz which will resonate through your roof timbers etc.

So, you're going to need some sort of automatic control. Manual control won't work. It'll either get left on or people will forget or not know to switch it on. So you'll need something like an occupancy sensor, but that won't have the capacity to switch the transformer, so you'll need the sensor to switch a contactor which will in turn switch the transformer on.

The only downside will be the thunk of the contactor pulling in every time you go in the bathroom.

oh, and you'll need some sort of DP OCPD between the transformer and the load.

maybe £300 for the parts plus probably a days labour ~£200 so £500 to get this lot in,

or just buy a unit designed to run on UK power.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

So neither of you think this is zone 0 and 1 of a fountain?

 

[RF Lighting]

The incomming mains connection isn't going to be in the bowl of the toilet is it?

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

It's going to be in the seat though. Not sure which I'd prefer.

I can't picture the plumbing required to achieve the required cleansing spray, and I'm not sure I want to, but I imagine that it is lower than the rim.

 

[Spark123]

So neither of you think this is zone 0 and 1 of a fountain?

No
You aren't really going to be playing, swimming or paddling in it

[now dreading the photos]

 

[ericmark]

Is this for real or are we all talking a load of s***?

 

[borbs]

Right a few more bits

I spoke to a mate of a mate who is an electrician and he basically said the cost of doing this is such that I might as well buy one designed for the uk market. It is not as simple as I had thought in terms of the transformer .

I had no intention of doing this job DIY but wanted ideas to discuss with my electrician as so many seemed to have no clue!

For interests sake the devices have a small tank with heater that warms the water. They also have a small fan to dry your bum lol. The plumbing is a simple tap onto the cistern cold feed and the washlet justs replaces the loo seat. They are rated at about 500W.

Given that a uk devices costs about £500 the costs of a days labour plus transformer plus 110v RCD plus contactor will be about the same.

I assume a 230v supply can be safely installed?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is there a hands-free model so you can use the 'phone at the same time?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That plug is an example of a Japanese set up. The washlet is supplied with a plug with a built in RCD with a trailing earth.

I say again - the plug in the photo you provided does not have a built in RCD.

110v rcds can be sourced from specialist suppliers like farnell.

Indeed they can.

Where are they designed to be installed?

And please explain how one would work on the secondary side of a transformer.

I have no intention of asking a council jobs worth for any approval for what I do with my property.

Then you'll end up with a property which will either be harder to sell than it ought to be, or with a property which you lie about when selling which will add fraud to your list of offences.

It's not "council jobsworths" who have made it a requirement for you to notify them - it's Parliament, and it is the law.

I had no intention of doing this job DIY but wanted ideas to discuss with my electrician as so many seemed to have no clue!

An interesting late clarification.

You see, your original post did not give the slightest hint that this was the case:

Looking to install one of these in the UK.
.
.
My plan was to fit a 1000W 230 to 110V transformer in the loft and then run down a cable to the bathroom going into a standard flex outlet plate and then attach this to the toilet (after cutting the Japanese plug off). The transformer would, of course, be attached to a RCD protected circuit.
Other options would be to obtain a Japanese socket and fit this in the bathroom rather than the flex outlet plate.

In fact it read exactly as if you had every intention of DIYing.

I assume a 230v supply can be safely installed?

Ask your electrician.

Is he registered, BTW? If not, then unless he shares your law-breaking outlook you'll need to add a few £'00 to the cost.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

[now dreading the photos]

Loads available via Google image search, I'm sure, and probably not one suitable for posting here...

 

[bernardgreen]

And please explain how one [ 110v rcds ] would work on the secondary side of a transformer..

Provided one side is made "neutral" by a connection to the CPC of the 110 volt sustem then it will work in the same way as a 230 volt RCD works on the secondary of the transformer in the sub station.

Though for increased safety ( or rather reduced risk ) I would centre tap the 110 volt secondary to earth and/or CPC of the 110 volt system thus limiting touch voltage ( relative to ground / CPC ) to 55 volts or less.

As to the Washlet device. Just how safe is this thing ? What happens if the thermostat jams on and scalding hot water is jetted out ? Is there a secondary safety cut out ?

The motor that swings the arm into postion has to be compact to fit and is likely to be more frequency sensitive than most motors. A 60 Hz motor running on 50 Hz at its rated voltage will take more than its rated current as the impedance at 50 Hz is less than the impedance at 60 Hz. This can result in overheating of the motor.

And more important just how effective is it at cleaning the posterior. ?

 

[shedbang]

I've worked a lot in Japan over the years and trust me, he's not winding you up. These things are brilliant...

They are mostly made by a company called Toto, and they sell a huge range from the basic manual model to an all singing / dancing seat warming, air blowing, scented, massaging wonder.

Like most middle aged gentlemen, I am beginning to see the toilet as my last refuge in a world of increasing madness. I spend longer in there nowadays than I strictly (ahem) need to. Usually with a good book, but often with the newspaper. For all, that, it's s till a pretty miserable experience that I would gladly pay money to improve. What other part of our daily routine has failed to improve so markedly with the advent of technology over the course of the past 100 years? Oh and by the way, most Arabs I met in the Middle East thought our habit of using dry paper to smear 'stuff' around was as close to barbarism as you could get nowadays!!

I've been searching for nearly 10 years to get something similar in the UK, but to no avail. However, it seems that Toto have now opened a shop in London and presumably sell toilets designed for UK voltage (and plumbing, don't forget that - the soil pipe exits beneath not horizontally on their foreign models).

As yet, I can't find a distributor or pricing, but a quick google suggests up to £8k

I guess there's a lot of things you can buy for £8k that would make your backside feel good...