Kitchen Renovation - Electrical Queries

[Mr Sparkle]

I am renovating my kitchen and i want to make sure that everything is safe from an electrical standpoint

1. Is it ok to plug the boiler directly into a spur socket? The socket is double pole

2. I currently do not have an chimney extractor and washing machine in my kitchen. So i need to create a new sockets. In order to get power to the sockets is it alright to spur off an existing socket or does the power need to come from an FCU?

 

[ericmark]

The boiler manufacturer may stipulate what is requires, in the main same supply for all boiler equipment and 3 amp so plug with 3 amp fuse or FCU with 3 amp fuse will both comply, some times they also say type A RCD or just a RCD if it does not say type then it will be type AC in the main even if it asks for type A there is little you can do.

To get more sockets you have to know how the original socket is supplied, the cables to sockets can be protected from over load in many ways, two cables and 32A overload, single cable and a 20A overload or even a FCU with 13A fuse. It is permitted to take a spur from a 32A ring with an extra socket as it is considered the 13A fuse in the plug will stop over load, however you can not take a spur from a spur. You can however that a spur from a supply already protected with a 20A or 13A fuse as many sockets as you want as long as the loop impedance is within the limits for that over load.

You can get cheap plug in tester to test a 20 amp radial or 13 amp spur, but not for a ring final as a ring final the limit was 1.44Ω now 10% less and the cheap plug in testers start at 1.5Ω, however since all now needs RCD protection even if it is 1.5Ω and with a ring testing is very important as it relies on the ring being intact, with a radial if plug in tester with loop says OK it is in the main OK, but the cheap tester is not good enough for a ring, you need to test the continuity manually.

 

[John D v2.0]

1. Is it ok to plug the boiler directly into a spur socket? The socket is double pole

What do you mean by double pole? Is that the switch?
Technically a socket switch is not an isolator so you should use an un switched socket. Then you can unplug to isolate. I'm more keen on that than an fcu as they are always switched and the switch can be elbowed on easily.

 

[ajohn]

What you can do depends on how the kitchen is currently wired. Best place to start is the consumer unit. First point what type is it. You could find a wylex wired fuse unit. A later type with cartridge fuses, or a modern one with mcb's and rcd's in it. 2nd what rating is the part that powers the kitchen. It might power the whole house / flat, one floor or just the kitchen. A photo of the CU can help as well with the covers off so wiring can be seen.

 

[bernardgreen]

A photo of the CU can help as well with the covers off so wiring can be seen.

Caution as with the CU cover removed and the Main Switch OFF there are still LIVE parts accessible in the CU

 

[ajohn]

Caution as with the CU cover removed and the Main Switch OFF there are still LIVE parts accessible in the CU

Good point. With any luck the fuse /mcb may have a label mentioning what it powers. If not they will have to be switched off or pulled out. Do that with the main switch off as well also when putting them back in. Fuses that is.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I have attached pics of the consumer unit, the fcu, socket and wiring behind the sockets

Both the fcu and single gang socket have wire coming in from the 1st floor, then then a wire going out to one another

@John D v2.0 the socket that i purchased is Double pole i.e. Live and Neutral switched on

 

[ajohn]

You have 2 FCU's. One circuit rated at 6amps and another at 16 so depends what's on them. You need to find out what and which one you can use. Both may be capable of being fitted with a higher current MCD. Personally I would always fit an extracter via it's own SFU with a sensible fuse as motors can cause grief also a washing machine. That way if they have problems causing RCD trips they can be disconnected via a double pole switch. Switches on sockets might not be easy to get to. They don't currently insist on this as far as I am aware just suggest it.

Then comes the wattage of the washer and extractor.

Easiest why to find out which is which is to turn them off at the CU and plug something in that you are 100% sure works and wont overload them. One at a time, off and then back on again. Or buy a test plug. There is always a chance that some one might have slipped another socket in somewhere as well - maybe not an electrician.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

@ajohn

The 6amp fcu is a general spur and the 16amp fcu was providing power to an old water tank.

The tank has been removed/replaced with a combi (hence the query on providing power )

Both of these fcu you see listed on the CU are on the first floor.

The FCU in my kitchen is on the ground floor. And this is on the ring circuit

I have added a pic of the CU listing

 

[JohnD]

You have 2 FCU's. One circuit rated at 6amps and another at 16

No, he doesn't. The things in the consumer unit are MCBs.

The 6amp fcu is a general spur and the 16amp fcu was providing power to an old water tank.

as above.
And it isn't a spur.
Incidentally you can't get a 16A FCU, and if you wanted a 6A one, you would have to order a cartridge fuse specially (probably unobtainable as the nearest standard one is 5A)

In the pictures I can see one FCU which is probably intended for switching an appliance socket. The description on the CU label is poor, it would be more meaningful to say "kitchen appliance" or "fridge outlet" or whatever it is.

It is next to a socket outlet, so it would be rather eccentric to run a dedicated circuit to it.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

In the pictures I can see one FCU which is probably intended for switching an appliance socket.

You are right, I have attached a pic of the appliance socket

However, according to my kitchen design the washing machine is on the other side of the room

So i will chisel out the existing wire and run a new longer cable to the position of the washing machine. The socket will be integrated into the base unit adjacent to the washing machine.

However do you have any idea how i can add an additional socket for the kitchen hood extractor?

I do have a cooker switch close by

 

[JohnD]

However do you have any idea how i can add an additional socket for the kitchen hood extractor?

you could supply it from the kitchen lighting circuit

Or you could spur off an FCU from a conveniently close socket. You could also do this for the washing machine. Trying to run a long cable from that old FCU does not sound very satisfactory. Leave it in place and you could use it for a fridge or something.

 

[ajohn]

No, he doesn't. The things in the consumer unit are MCBs.

Really. I did comment on the rating. Not sure if a link to a posted photo works but will post it anyway

https://www.diynot.com/diy/attachments/img_20200304_111907860-jpg.185257/

 

[ajohn]

So i will chisel out the existing wire and run a new longer cable to the position of the washing machine. The socket will be integrated into the base unit adjacent to the washing machine

Shame to waste the 16amps. It could be converted to a 20 amp radial for sockets. When there is cooker circuit some electricians do that. I always wonder how many sockets and for what. A bit behind the times going on what may get plugged in now.

If washing machine is <2kw guidance suggest that it can be spurred of a ring - usually avoids overloading thanks to diversity. You have one ring, flat maybe? Houses often have 2. 3kw can be plugged in but a separate circuit is preferred. Maybe the 16amp one?

When channeling for cables look at safe zones. There are lots of out of date stuff about on the web but this looks correct

https://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/electrical-safe-zones.htm

Effectively sockets, switches etc create their own it can need some work to get power there for them to do that.

Personally I wouldn't supply a fan from a lighting circuit. Spure yes with a sfcu. Could be positioned to allow it to be turned on and off. Plugging into the cooker switch wont look nice. Being naughty I might look and see if I could wire off the back of it. Never looked in one but maybe they thought of that.

Socket etc positioning is shown here. the height mentioned matters. However kitchens are no longer a special area but stick to this anyway

http://maw-services.com/other-services/electrical/