Kitchens and Part P

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I understand that Part P requires an electrician to do work in a kitchen. I assume this is to do with the sockets/isolator/switches/lighting/fixed installations, etc.

Does it include connecting the already installed flexible cable from the cooker isolator to the connections on the oven/hob, for example? Or do I need to get the electrician back to do this for me in order to keep within the law?

Edit: I suppose the same question arises in the bathroom. Can I change the fixed ceiling light to another Zone approved fitting or do I need the electrician for this as well?
 
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I understand that Part P requires an electrician to do work in a kitchen. I assume this is to do with the sockets/isolator/switches/lighting/fixed installations, etc.
Some work in kitchens is notifiable, more than that which is notifiable in some other locations, but you always have the option of DIYing. DIYing and staying within the law regarding notification may be unfeasibly expensive, but there's no prohibition.

You should read Schedule 2B.

The way it works is that you start at the top of the list, and read down until you find a match which makes what you are doing non-notifiable. If you reach the end without finding a match then it is notifiable.

It's important to keep reading even if you think you've hit something which means it's notifiable, because later you might find an exemption, e.g. you might think that 2(a) means its the end of the road if you're installing outside lighting, but if the lights are a pre-fabricated set with flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections then 3(c) gives you an exemption.


Does it include connecting the already installed flexible cable from the cooker isolator to the connections on the oven/hob, for example? Or do I need to get the electrician back to do this for me in order to keep within the law?
That sounds like a replacement of fixed electrical equipment - see 1(a), or connecting a non-fixed appliance, which is outside the scope of the Building Regulations in the first place.


Edit: I suppose the same question arises in the bathroom. Can I change the fixed ceiling light to another Zone approved fitting or do I need the electrician for this as well?
Again, see 1(a).
 
Thanks BAS.

For info it's a new kitchen in an almost completed flat conversion and the leccy has left a cable out the wall for the new cooker/hob.

Same for the bathroom, he installed standard pendant fittings during construction knowing they would need to be changed to proper zone fittings before completion.
 
You can change like for like yourself. But do be 100% sure that you have isolated the circuits.
 
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The original schedule 2B of the building regs is out of date and was corrected by SI 2006 652 which is incorporated in BAS's link.

Interestingly para 2(a) still is not terminated with "and", so I assume it reads as it was intended. Consequently a DIYer is permitted to do anything he likes apart from installaing a consumer unit, providing the work's not in a kitchen or in a special location. I thought this wasn't intended because the Approved Document is worded such that this is not permitted.

Nevertheless, the SI must take precidence and that says that I can do anything (except the cu) other than in a kitchen or special location and even then I can add lights, switches, sockets and spurs by extending an existing circuit, although not a special installation.

The benefit of this is that when selling my house I can honestly say that I have complied with part P of the Building Regs even though I have not complied with the Approved Document to part P.
 
BAS — your link to schedule 2B of the building regs is out of date and was corrected by SI 2006 652.
Ummm...

"As amended by S.I. 2001/3335; 2002/440; 2002/2871; 2003/2692; 2004/1465; 2004/3210; 2005/1082; 2005/1541; 2006/652;
2006/3318; 2007/991; 2007/3302; 2007/3384; 2008/671; 2008/2334; 2008/2363; and 2009/466.
"



You now have to notify the installation of a consumer unit among other things.
Ummm...

"1. Work consisting of—
(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—
(i) any new fixed cabling; or
(ii) a consumer unit;
"



Interestingly para 2(a) still is not terminated with "and". Consequently a DIYer is permitted to do anything he likes apart from installaing a consumer unit, providing the work's not in a kitchen or in a special location. I know this wasn't intended because the Approved Document is worded such that this is not permitted.
Indeed that is not what was intended.

But then that it isn't what it says.

The reason that there is no "and" after 2(a) is for exactly the same reason that you might say "I'll have fish, chips, and mushy peas, please", or "a pint of lager, 2 pints of bitter, a coke, a dry white wine and a pint of cider please", i.e. you put an "and" before the last item, not between every one.

It says "Work which is not in a kitchen, or a special location, does not involve work on a special installation, and consists of adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit or adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit".

Why on earth should you think that means that a DIYer is permitted to do anything he likes apart from installing a consumer unit, providing the work's not in a kitchen or in a special location?

It means "Work which is not in a kitchen, or a special location, and does not involve work on a special installation, and consists of adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit or adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit", in just the same way that when you say "a pint of lager, 2 pints of bitter, a coke, a dry white wine and a pint of cider please", you mean you want a pint of lager and 2 pints of bitter and a coke and a dry white wine and a pint of cider.


Nevertheless, the SI must take precidence and that says that I can do anything (except the cu) other than in a kitchen or special location
No it doesn't.

and even then I can add lights, switches, sockets and spurs by extending an existing circuit,
No you can't.


The benefit of this is that when selling my house I can honestly say that I have complied with part P of the Building Regs even though I have not complied with the Approved Document to part P.
No you can't.

You need to read it with more care and accuracy.
 
It means "Work which is not in a kitchen, or a special location, and does not involve work on a special installation, and consists of adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit or adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit."

on this occasion BAS you are incorrect..
commas in a list following an "or" indicate further or's..
that first and you inserted should be an or...

"work in a kitchen , or a special location, or does not involve work on a special installation........"

outside power and lighting is a special installaton and they are most definitely not in a kitchen but are still notifiable..
 
on this occasion BAS you are incorrect..
No, I'm not.


commas in a list following an "or" indicate further or's..
that first and you inserted should be an or...
No, because if you look at the way the text is actually written it says

2. Work which—
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of—
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;


the (a), (b) and (c) are subclauses (I don't know if that's the right term, but hopefully you'll see what I mean), and they are linked by the "and" just before (c).

The structure is

Work which
subclause (a),
subclause (b) and
subclause (c)

It's in English, so just like "fish, chips and mushy peas" means you want fish and chips and mushy peas, it means

Work which
subclause (a) and
subclause (b) and
subclause (c)

subclause (a) is: is not in a kitchen, or a special location. The "or" you were using just works on kitchen & special location.

subclause (b) is: does not involve work on a special installation

subclause (c) is: consists of (i)... or (ii)....

So it means

"Work which is not in a kitchen, or a special location, and does not involve work on a special installation, and consists of adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit or adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit".

With your interpretation you'd drop out from Schedule 2B with "non notifiable" if you got a match on any part of 2(a) or 2(b) and a match on 2(c),

e.g. an ELV lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking etc etc.., you've just bought a bunch of ELV luminaires, a roll of 1.5mm² T/E, some sleeving and some switches etc, and you're going to install them in the living room

You say not notifiable if not in a kitchen , or a special location, or does not involve work on a special installation

and

consists of adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit or adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.


So are these lights not in a kitchen or in a special location or are they not a special installation.

You get a match there. Because you've linked them with an or you only have to match one of them, so you come out with a "yes" because it's not in a kitchen or a special location.

If it were written as a Boolean logic expression it would be

m = x OR y

it only needs one of x, y to be <TRUE> and m is <TRUE>

in this case with not kitchen or special location, & not special installation we get

m= <TRUE> OR <FALSE>

m= <TRUE>

Then we go onto

and

consists of adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit or adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.


There's a match there - it does consist of one of those: adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit .

So the first half is <TRUE>, and so is the second.

It becomes [Not Notifiable] = <TRUE> AND <TRUE>

i.e. [Not Notifiable] = <TRUE> - installing those lights which are not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking etc etc is non-notifiable.

Which is not the case.
 
BAS, your logic is flawed

going on your boolean logic it should read

m = x OR y OR z

so..
(x) it is in a kitchen = <false>
(y) it is in a special location = <false>
(z) it is a special installation = <true>

so.. m = <false> or <false> or <true> = <true> it is notifiable..

your way it reads

m = ( x OR y ) AND z
m = (<false> OR <false>) AND <true>
m = <false> AND <true> = <false> it is not notifiable
 
I can see we're going to get into a long winded debate again over who is right even though we both agree on the outcome..

apart from the items listed in part 1,

work in a kitchen is notifiable.
work in a special location is notifiable.
work on a special installation is notiable.
work anywhere else that is not just adding lights or sockets to an existing circuit is notifiable.

can we at least agree on that? ;) :D
 
Tipper, if you are capable to do so, just wire the fecker up and be done with it.

Life's too short.
 
I can see we're going to get into a long winded debate again over who is right even though we both agree on the outcome..
Your outcome is different from mine.

apart from the items listed in part 1,

work in a kitchen is notifiable.
work in a special location is notifiable.
work on a special installation is notiable.
work anywhere else that is not just adding lights or sockets to an existing circuit is notifiable.

can we at least agree on that? ;) :D
We can, which means we should agree that it goes

2(a) and
2(b) and
2(c)

'cos if we have

2(a) or
2(b) and
2(c)

then work on special installations becomes non-notifiable...
 

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