Klima ufh mat - am I being stupid here?

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I'm installing a Klima ufh mat and following their instructions, taken basic measurements before install when my sparky will then test and connect the power circuit after the floor is tiled.

Their instructions say to use a multimeter and write down the readings. There are two power cables and a sheathed earth. In the description it says "take the readings with a multimeter and write down the readings on the test card". "Take measurements both between the resistance wires and between the resistance wire and the earth cladding. The last one should always read open circuit. If not: STOP immediately and call the technical helpline on 01887 822 020".

As an experienced electrical/electronics engineer, this makes complete sense. It didn't ask for a megger insulation test, simply a resistance test. I've got 144 ohms across the resistance wires and open circuit between each resistance wire and earth. Any yet their test card says the reading should read "0".

I rang them to query the typo and they were robustly defensive and said there was no mistake in the brochure and that every multimeter they had ever used read zero for open circuit!

Great, I said, so how does a short circuit read on your meter. "There shouldn't be a short circuit, it should be open circuit and read zero". I asked if they were using an MFT, they said "no, a standard multimeter and it should read zero for an open circuit. We are the manufacturers and this is how we measure it".

Am I being stupid here? I'm surprised they haven't had other calls about it. Please put me out of my misery and tell me what I have failed to understand?

klima1.jpg

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You are correct.

0 - zero - would mean zero ohms - a dead short.

Some better meters may read OL - letters - meaning Over Limit for open circuit.
 
I'm installing a Klima ufh mat and following their instructions, taken basic measurements before install when my sparky will then test and connect the power circuit after the floor is tiled.

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that it is not done like that. The sparks will have to lie.
 
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Someone will be along shortly to tell you that it is not done like that. The sparks will have to lie.

Sparky would presumably want to do a megger insulation test on it which might reveal a breakdown that the multimeter could never detect. Given that the installation is a notifiable item, then I wonder why Klima don't ask for an insulation test to be done before and after. It's going to be too late if there is any breakdown revealed after the mat is laid that might have been there at manufacture and not detected by a simple resistance test.
 
They have missed out the L it should read OL. not 0, my meter will never record O it can show 00.0 or 0.00 but will always show three or four digits. I can see why you measure line to neutral with a multi-meter, but should not line to earth be measured using 500 volt? Mothers underfloor heating was damaged by the builder installing it, had to remove all tiles and start again with a new mat, however multi-meter still showed OL. it was only the insulation tester which showed less than 500 kΩ. Under the tiles of a wet room even with RCD protection I would not trust a multi-meter.
 
It's going to be too late if there is any breakdown revealed after the mat is laid that might have been there at manufacture and not detected by a simple resistance test.
Given that you realise that, this is puzzling:

my sparky will then test and connect the power circuit after the floor is tiled.

What will be your thoughts if he finds a problem after the floor is tiled?

Also, why are you installing this? What are you expecting it to do?
 
Given that you realise that, this is puzzling:

What will be your thoughts if he finds a problem after the floor is tiled?


Bear in mind I posted as soon as I discovered this issue. Interesting that some multimeters do show "1" for an open circuit.

Sparky has just been, he said they don't megger the thin wires of ufh mats, just a resistance test, so all done and ready to install.

Also, why are you installing this? What are you expecting it to do?

Not sure I understand the questions here.
 
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Sparky has just been, he said they don't megger the thin wires of ufh mats, just a resistance test ....
In my opinion, that is probably rather silly - there is no reason why the thinness of the wires should prevent a proper insulation resistance ('megger') test, whereas low voltage resistance measurements could fail to reveal a problem which could eventually cause your floor to have to be ripped up, not to mention possible dangers.

Kind Regards, John
 
Thanks for the selection Flameport. Interesting that it's (reasonably) clear on the screens that the open circuit is such and not a reading. A more sophisticated device could null the lead impedance out but I stand by my original point that the Klima instructions are wrong in saying that an open circuit "should read 0".
 
I mean why have you installed this UFH? For what reason(s)

What do you expect it to do when it is turned on?

The mat is in an ensuite (c 5 sq m total area) with tiled floor above an unheated garage. Although the joist space will be well insulated and the room has a decent ch fed towel rad, I want to take the chill off the hard floor by putting the 300 watts or so into it. It will probably do nothing when I turn it on but an hour or two later the floor won't be icy cold in the winter. It'll be programmed for two periods in the morning and at bedtime.

Can you see any issues with that? I'd appreciate your input since the floor tiles going down tomorrow ;)
 

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