Let's NOT give £350m extra each week to the NHS! A better idea....

That's not really the same.

It was always prophesied that if/when robots would do half the jobs then people could share the remaining jobs and work half a week each.
Of course the employers did not want to share the reduced costs with the workers so just sacked half of them.


Even worse, nowadays both husband and wife likely go out to work and may even be working more hours to earn enough.

When people get laid off due to automation, it can result in the remaining workforce working longer or harder hours, but they are often well paid.

Having two incomes in many households is largely down to feminism, and this is unlikely to change as we generally need that to afford a house. Of course women are less happy now than they were 40 years ago.
 
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I think the jobs that will be around the longest are technical jobs in science, technology (renewable energies),
Brexit has put these jobs at risk in the UK.

builders + tradesman (going to be a long time before a robot can literally build a house or plumb a toilet)... thing is though technological advances leave nothing untouched. Look at push fit plumbing in the last 10-15 years.. as a homeowner you can effectively plumb your own pipework from start to finish.. fantastic way of saving money but the plumber loses 3 out of the 5 grand he was going to get for the whole job because you did it yourself. Same with running the cables. All of these jobs originally had a higher economic value but not now.. the value is slowly diminishing and as I said jobs in money handling are diminishing the fastest.
Building trade is sensitive to the economy, so could also be affected by Brexit. But yes, many jobs are now easier than they were, so more able to be done DIY. However, many are losing skills, or getting more ambitious work done on their house.
Streamlining and standardisation (3d printing) will mean you can make yourself in your own home parts that are needed for an item which you may otherwise have binned because it was cheaper to buy a new one (waching machines/dishwashers/fridges.. so effectively each home will become it's own mini-manufacturing basis.. turning over the materials instead of purchasing new.
I can foresee people doing illegal downloads of spare part plans for 3d printing. But there will be a way to around this. Eg. Manufacturers could ensure that the bits that fail were not 3d printable (eg. a part that is a composite material). One can only hope that your vision is the one that transpires, but the market may have other ideas.
The same with food/agriculture.. we will see food grown hydroponically within buildings (at source) - no more importing food from abroad and the environmental cost that comes with it.
Would be a nice idea, but too expensive for the foreseeable future. Don't assume food miles are a reliable measure of environmental cost. The carbon footprint of many foods grown in the UK are higher than many imported (depending on a range of issues, such as the time of year you buy them).
See the whole system is gradually slowing down.. growth is an illusion... we are just buying time at the moment. Eventually there will be a radical shift, whether in our lifetimes or our childrens.
Global GDP is growing. standards of living globally are going up.
I struggle to see why you would come to such a conclusion, when technology is bringing a whole range of benefits.
 
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Brexit has put these jobs at risk in the UK.


Building trade is sensitive to the economy, so could also be affected by Brexit. But yes, many jobs are now easier than they were, so more able to be done DIY. However, many are losing skills, or getting more ambitious work done on their house.

I can foresee people doing illegal downloads of spare part plans for 3d printing. But there will be a way to around this. Eg. Manufacturers could ensure that the bits that fail were not 3d printable (eg. a part that is a composite material). One can only hope that your vision is the one that transpires, but the market may have other ideas.

What's illegal about downloading the software for a spare part ??? You mean illegal from a copyright perspective??? - If that's what you mean I can't really see how it is.. how can you copyright a static shape?? Let's say you want to print a washer.. you telling me that's illegal because someone has copyrighted the washer? Makes no sense. Even if that's what you are implying how would you enforce that copyright ?? What impact has copyright had on the film and entertainment industry?? The government has been lobbied for years trying to enforce tighter laws and more prosecutions for copyright breaches and for the most part it's been a spectacular failure.

The beautiful thing about the technology is that there really is no ceiling on what can be done with it.. you talking about the market having other ideas? Well that doesn't really matter does it? The 'market' becomes irrelevant because mostly everything can be produced at source.

3D printing brings with it some dangers let's not forget. Not sure if you heard about the 3d printing/milling machine recently on sale in the US.. basically it allows the manufacture of firearms ... they sold all the machines at pre-production stage lol I wonder why.


Would be a nice idea, but too expensive for the foreseeable future. Don't assume food miles are a reliable measure of environmental cost. The carbon footprint of many foods grown in the UK are higher than many imported (depending on a range of issues, such as the time of year you buy them).

Too expensive NOW, yes, but that's the point.. it won't be long until it is perfectly feasible. You also neglect the fact that modern farming is primarily conventional outdoor farming.. in artifical environments you can grow crops much more efficiently without the risk of bugs and diseases... any limitation can be quickly ironed out.. actually (take thiis as a bad example, but an example nonetheless).. the cannabis market in the Uk is primarily from those home grow set ups.. only 15 years + ago the majority of cannabis in the UK had to be imported from regions warm enough to support the plant.. but that's no longer necessary because of home grows.. yes a bad example.. but an example of a radical market shift... there's no reason why this couldn't apply to plants that require warmer environments on a massive scale (industrialised hydrophics)

Global GDP is growing. standards of living globally are going up.
I struggle to see why you would come to such a conclusion, when technology is bringing a whole range of benefits.


GDP is always either growing or in recession, that's the nature of the market.. but keep in mind this accounts for jobs currently in existence that will soon be obselete as well.. you can't measure the current climate (which is pretty dire) and then say well let's benchmark that against a hopeful increase in the future + added billions of people. It's not about a change in work methods like someone earlier was trying to argue about donkeys +carts/railways/ etc it's the complete removal of a human's job from the marketplace. Complete radical shift.
 
It's not about a change in work methods like someone earlier was trying to argue about donkeys +carts/railways/ etc it's the complete removal of a human's job from the marketplace. Complete radical shift.
It's precisely the same thing. One train makes 10000 barrow boys obsolete. Completely removed from the market place. Poof.
And it creates 20000 jobs for signalmen, firemen, steel workers, line planners, coaliers, shed builders, coach carpenters... plus all the other industries that can now exist thanks to the increase in long distance haulage capacity and speed.

One robot puts makes a thousand car welders obsolete. Completely removed from the market place. Poof.
And it creates 2000 jobs for programmers, technicians, PCB assemblers, electromechanical engineers... plus all the other industries that can now exist thanks to the damand for robot parts, and the falling cost of vehicles.

You're mistake is to look only at the jobs in existence now that will be made obsolete, while being blind to all the jobs that will exist thanks to the new technology. Jobs that we can't even predict, just as the Victorians could
l never have predicted the jobs of the vlogger, fighter pilot, or fibre-optic installer.
 
It's precisely the same thing. One train makes 10000 barrow boys obsolete. Completely removed from the market place. Poof.
And it creates 20000 jobs for signalmen, firemen, steel workers, line planners, coaliers, shed builders, coach carpenters... plus all the other industries that can now exist thanks to the increase in long distance haulage capacity and speed.

One robot puts makes a thousand car welders obsolete. Completely removed from the market place. Poof.
And it creates 2000 jobs for programmers, technicians, PCB assemblers, electromechanical engineers... plus all the other industries that can now exist thanks to the damand for robot parts, and the falling cost of vehicles.

You're mistake is to look only at the jobs in existence now that will be made obsolete, while being blind to all the jobs that will exist thanks to the new technology. Jobs that we can't even predict, just as the Victorians could
l never have predicted the jobs of the vlogger, fighter pilot, or fibre-optic installer.

'technology' isn't a reasonable explanation when machines run themselves... I've asked you several times, how are you expecting 'technology' to create billions more jobs to support the billions more as yet unborn people ? WHAT JOBS??? Entire train networks can be run remotely from one central hub of about 5-10 people .. an entire automated warehouse can run with the input of 1-2 humans. WHAT JOBS??? Programmers, technicans, PCB assemblers, electromechanical engineers??? yes example I've already given YOU,,... but even these jobs exist within context to all other jobs currently keeping GDP ticking along, some of which will soon be obselete,.. there is not enough of these jobs as a standalone option to support the growing population.
 
WHAT JOBS???
Tell me where all the unemployed steam-engine stokers are; are the unemployed chimneysweeps; all the unemployed fellowe-makers; all the unemployed saddlers and lorrimers; the flint-knappers and charcoal-burners?
 
Tell me where all the unemployed steam-engine stokers are; are the unemployed chimneysweeps; all the unemployed fellowe-makers; all the unemployed saddlers and lorrimers; the flint-knappers and charcoal-burners?

dead
 
I've asked you several times, how are you expecting 'technology' to create billions more jobs to support the billions more as yet unborn people ?
How has technology created the billions of jobs that people do today, that didn't exist a hundred years ago?

Entire train networks can be run remotely from one central hub of about 5-10 people ..
Ever noticed how the more sophisticated technology becomes, the less reliable it gets? What will those 5-10 people do when the first component fails? Where do the machines come from in the first place? Machines will never 'run themselves' .

You're also still deliberately ignoring how the more automated things become, the cheaper everything gets, and therefore the less people have to work to live. These are basic laws of economics. Here's a very quick and easy primer if you want to get a grip on them (try skipping to page 33):
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Henry Hazlitt Economics in One Lesson.pdf?file=1&type=document
 
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What's illegal about downloading the software for a spare part ??? You mean illegal from a copyright perspective??? - If that's what you mean I can't really see how it is.. how can you copyright a static shape?? Let's say you want to print a washer.. you telling me that's illegal because someone has copyrighted the washer? Makes no sense. Even if that's what you are implying how would you enforce that copyright ?? What impact has copyright had on the film and entertainment industry?? The government has been lobbied for years trying to enforce tighter laws and more prosecutions for copyright breaches and for the most part it's been a spectacular failure.
They'll make it illegal, I'm sure. You'll probably have to pay a reg fee to get access to thousands of spare parts.

The beautiful thing about the technology is that there really is no ceiling on what can be done with it.
This is wrong. There is always a limit to any technology. Be it light bulbs, toys, cars, trains..... everything has a limit.
. you talking about the market having other ideas? Well that doesn't really matter does it? The 'market' becomes irrelevant because mostly everything can be produced at source.
You assume that 3d printing will not have limits. This is misplaced. Like I said, they could make things out of composite materials, and ensure that the bits that can be done on a 3d printer are the bits that are least likely to fail.

Planned obselecscence is a thing.

Too expensive NOW, yes, but that's the point.. it won't be long until it is perfectly feasible. You also neglect the fact that modern farming is primarily conventional outdoor farming.. in artifical environments you can grow crops much more efficiently without the risk of bugs and diseases... any limitation can be quickly ironed out.. actually (take thiis as a bad example, but an example nonetheless).. the cannabis market in the Uk is primarily from those home grow set ups.. only 15 years + ago the majority of cannabis in the UK had to be imported from regions warm enough to support the plant.. but that's no longer necessary because of home grows.. yes a bad example.. but an example of a radical market shift... there's no reason why this couldn't apply to plants that require warmer environments on a massive scale (industrialised hydrophics)
We cannot assume that a technology will be affordable one day. We cannot know with certainty that any particular technology will be. Are we flying around in Concordes at twice the speed of sound? Or are we flying in bigger slower planes?

And growing something that requires heat in somewhere like the UK requires heat. This ups the carbon footprint. Eg. UK tomatoes have a higher carbon footprint than pork, turkey or chicken, and often higher than foods that have travelled from 1000s of miles away. Food that requires storage so we can eat out of season also have a high carbon footprint, so UK apples bought in June will have a higher carbon footprint than a foreign apple.

GDP is always either growing or in recession, that's the nature of the market.. but keep in mind this accounts for jobs currently in existence that will soon be obselete as well.. you can't measure the current climate (which is pretty dire) and then say well let's benchmark that against a hopeful increase in the future + added billions of people. It's not about a change in work methods like someone earlier was trying to argue about donkeys +carts/railways/ etc it's the complete removal of a human's job from the marketplace. Complete radical shift.
I base it upon history. For the past few hundred years, technology has improved, fewer jobs have been required for many industries, and yet there are more jobs, and more prosperity. I see no evidence that there will be mass unemployment due to automation.

There may be some white collar jobs that could go soon, but again, this does not mean that everyone will get laid off, and new skills will be required.
 
I find it very interesting that economics is starting to be discussed in this forum !

To fully understand economics . . . & how an economy works . . . you first need to be able to strip everything back to basics. Cut out the ******, & see things for exactly what they are.

Having read the 6 pages of this nonsense so far . . . I see I have much more work to do.
 
Crack on with it then....table six are ready to order :p

How much does criminal corruption within the NHS cost?

How much are we spending to combat criminal corruption within the NHS?

How much does moral corruption within the NHS cost?

How much are we spending to combat moral corruption within the NHS?

The NHS can never have enough money, the more money that is thrown its way, the more money it will throw away.

Politicians will woo your vote by talking utter nonsense about our NHS . . . yet they know almost nothing about its economy !
 
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