Light Wiring Check

[MisterFish]

Hi

I'm replacing an overhead Light / Fan combination with a straightforward pendant lamp. There is only one switch.

The wiring for the old fitting has three incoming reds, one black and two earths.

Untitled

• MisterFish
• 4 Jul 2014
• 1

New pendant just needs one red and one black

Just to check

All reds together
both earths together
red and black to new fitting
earth redundant

Is this right?

Thanks guys
Fish

 

[EFLImpudence]

You must replicate the present wiring which (presumably) works.

Wires can be anything we want; they do not know what colour they are.

 

[JohnW2]

earth redundant

Is that metal plate on the ceiling (and, presumably, some sort of 'cover') remaining? If so, it would need to be connected to earth.

Kind Regards, John

 

[MisterFish]

You must replicate the present wiring which (presumably) works.

Wires can be anything we want; they do not know what colour they are.

Point taken. The earth is still redundant. I just connect them together and lose them?

Is that metal plate on the ceiling (and, presumably, some sort of 'cover') remaining? If so, it would need to be connected to earth.

The plate is coming down when the old fitting comes out. Later today, once I am certain what I am doing.

Fish

 

[MisterFish]

Additionally, the current fitting has four cables going in - nominally two lives one neutral one earth. I guess because it has a light and a fan.

Do I join the two (actually three) lives?

 

[JohnW2]

Point taken. The earth is still redundant. I just connect them together and lose them?

Yes. Although redundant now, the earth might be needed when the next person (maybe even you!) change the light fitting, so make sure that the earths are still 'there' - and, yes, they should be connected together.

The plate is coming down when the old fitting comes out. Later today, once I am certain what I am doing.

Fair enough - no problem then. I presume that what you're going to replace it with will be plastic, in which case obviously will not need an earth.

Talking of which, as you presumably realise, if you're going to replace it with a standard ceiling rose, that should have all the terminals you need to do the 'connecting together'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Additionally, the current fitting has four cables going in - nominally two lives one neutral one earth. I guess because it has a light and a fan. Do I join the two (actually three) lives?

If I understand correctly (I take it you mean wires/conductors, not 'cables') .... No - as EFLI said, just replicate the present situation. If one of the red conductors is currently not connected to anything, leave it like that (just in a connector block/terminal for safety).

Kind Regards, John

 

[MisterFish]

If I understand correctly (I take it you mean wires/conductors, not 'cables') .... No - as EFLI said, just replicate the present situation.

You understood correctly and I got that principle.

If one of the red conductors is currently not connected to anything, leave it like that (just in a connector block/terminal for safety).

This is where I am coming unglued. There are FOUR wires going in seperately to the present fitting.

Aside from the earth there are three. a neutral and TWO lives. Each of the live (red) wires goes to a SEPERATE in into the fitting.

As you know on a plastic ceiling rose there are only two wires in.

I am unsure where to send the spare live. I am guessing it goes into a terminal block and that is it?

Or should it be connevcted with the other lives?

Or something else?

 

[bernardgreen]

You say there is only one switch. Do you mean only one switch on the wall'

Did the fan unit have pull switches that allowed the fan to be switch on amd off when the lamp was on ?

Are you sure there are three reds, or is one of them black with a red sleeve ?

If one is a black with red sleeve then that is the switched Live and goes to the brown on the cable to the lamp holder. The red in the same gey cable is the permanent Live to the switch and needs to be connected to the other red which is the Live supply from the fuse box. The black is the Neutral supply from the fuse box and must go to the blue of the cable to the lamp.

If the fan could be switched on and off separately from the lamp then the two reds joined together may have been also connected to the fan unit to supply the switch operating the fan. For your new lamp only those two reds do not connect to anything other than each other.

 

[MisterFish]

Did the fan unit have pull switches that allowed the fan to be switch on amd off when the lamp was on ?

Yes

If one is a black with red sleeve then that is the switched Live and goes to the brown on the cable to the lamp holder. The red in the same gey cable is the permanent Live to the switch and needs to be connected to the other red which is the Live supply from the fuse box. The black is the Neutral supply from the fuse box and must go to the blue of the cable to the lamp.

If the fan could be switched on and off separately from the lamp then the two reds joined together may have been also connected to the fan unit to supply the switch operating the fan. For your new lamp only those two reds do not connect to anything other than each other.

So for clarity.

Earth - Joined and disused
Everything currently going to red (2 reds) - join and go to new red
Everything currently going to Black (1 black) - to new neutral
Everything currently going to brown (1 black sleeved red) - To a terminal block and ignore

Is that correct?

 

[JohnW2]

This is where I am coming unglued. There are FOUR wires going in seperately to the present fitting. ... Aside from the earth there are three. a neutral and TWO lives. Each of the live (red) wires goes to a SEPERATE in into the fitting. As you know on a plastic ceiling rose there are only two wires in. ... I am unsure where to send the spare live. I am guessing it goes into a terminal block and that is it? ... Or should it be connevcted with the other lives? ... Or something else?

Pragmatically, one would imagine that the blue conductor of your (2-core) pendent cable should be connected to the incoming black, and the brown of the pendant cable to one or other of the reds, the other red being connected to nothing (just safely parked in a connector block or spare part of a ceiling rose). As bernard has said, the 'other' red could well be a 'permanent live', enabling you to switch on the fan (with a pullcord or whatever) even if the light is off. If that is the case, then if you connect the pendant to the wrong red, the light will be permanently on.

A couple of questions. Firstly, it's not's clear from your photo - is there not a black conductor coming from the left-hand incoming cable? Secondly, what is the flex at the bottom, and do I take it that it's blue connects to the incoming black?

Kind Regards, John

 

[MisterFish]

Untitled

• MisterFish
• 4 Jul 2014
• 1

Here is what is happening:

A has:
Earth to 4
Red to 1
Black to 3

B has
Earth to 4
Red to 2
Red to 1
(that’s right B has 2 reds)

Leading off from the blocks to the current fitting

1 – To fitting brown
2 – to fitting red
3 – To fitting black
4 - GreenYellow to fitting + Green to Fitting case

 

[JohnW2]

Here is what is happening:

I have to say that I'm getting very confused, in that I find it difficult to reconcile your description with the picture. For example, I can't see a second red coming out of cable 'B', but there appears to be a black (is that perhaps the one coming from 'A' which has been bent around to create an optical illusion?). ... and are you saying that the flex at the bottom is 4-core?

Kind Regards, John

 

[MisterFish]

I have to say that I'm getting very confused, in that I find it difficult to reconcile your description with the picture. For example, I can't see a second red coming out of cable 'B', but there appears to be a black (is that perhaps the one coming from 'A' which has been bent around to create an optical illusion?). ...

Sorry. You are quite correct, my mistake. Please reverse A and B in the above description.

and are you saying that the flex at the bottom is 4-core?

Yes. This flex goes directly into the fitting and it is 4 core. (1 -brown 2 -red 3 -black 4 -earth in the above photo)

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry. You are quite correct, my mistake. Please reverse A and B in the above description.

OK, but I'm still not quite there Are you saying that there is a second red (which I can't really see) coming from cable A, and that there are two reds (one from each cable, going into the top of connector 1 (again which I can't really see).

Yes. This flex goes directly into the fitting and it is 4 core. (1 -brown 2 -red 3 -black 4 -earth in the above photo)

Thanks. That makes sense, and is what I would expect if there were a permanent live going to the fitting for the fan. Do I take it that it was possible to switch on the fan even if the light was off?

Kind Regards, John