Like for Like??

[AmateurFiFi]

I have been over to my sons house to look at his outside light. Its not worked for a while -even after replacing the bulb.

Its one of these cheapy non-enclosed tungsten-halogen flood lights (B&Q's best I think).

It obviously needs replacing. He wants a energy efficient flood with PIR.

My understanding that I can change this without requiring BC involvement. The circuit it runs of is RCD covered with a 63Amp/30mA device, with a 32 A MCB providing overcurrent protection

BUT the fixed cabling comes off on of his ring finals with only a conventional light switch controlling it. On investigating further as I realised the ?1mm spur is unfused other than by the 32 A MCB.

I was planning to improve this by:
i) feeding a FCU with a 3 amp fuse as a spur from the current sigle socket where the light is attached.
ii) This will then feed a 20A double pole (neon) switch.
iii) Final cabeling will be in 3 core 1.5 mm2 NYY cable secured to outside wall with appropriate clips.

I realise that this is not a direct "like for like" replacement but to my mind rectify many problems without causing much internal decorative aggravation.

I have only spent a short time fully investigating the circuit but can confirm (having tested line, neutral and cpc) that it is a ring final.

Any advice gratefully received.

FiFi

 

[Space cat]

I prefer heavy duty PVC conduit for outside wiring. I would bring the cable out through the wall into the back of a single entry box (screwed and sealed onto the wall with silicone) then on through conduit to a double entry box. The second entry on this box takes a short piece of conduit with a gland on the end, into which goes a very short loop of flex to your light. Join the cable to the flex with choc-block. This arrangement makes it easy to remove the light at a later date.

Plastics have a high coefficient of thermal expansion so, if you have a single run of conduit between the boxes, solvent weld it into one (the bottom one for a vertical run) but leave it free to slide in the other.

 

[ericmark]

To try and read the Part P regulations and define the point where it becomes notifiable one would need to be a lawyer. Even then not sure one could ever be 100%. However I have not heard of a single case going to court where a home owner has been taken to court for not following the regulations.

And not to correct an error in the installation just because it may break the law would be silly. The law says where a law breach is committed in order to prevent a greater crime from being committed the lesser breach is not to be considered as a crime.

Personally I would correct the defect. And I would not inform the LABC unless they were in some way already involved.

I am sure to letter of the law you should pay the LABC to issue a completion certificate. But the real issue is energy efficient flood lamp with PIR as most discharge lamps do not like being switched too often.

 

[Paul_C]

Personally I would correct the defect. And I would not inform the LABC unless they were in some way already involved.

Ditto. Unless you like getting tied up in red tape and have money to throw away, just get the job done.

But as you've used the phrase "like for like," I would point out that despite "like for like replacement" being thrown around quite widely, the notification exemptions in the building regulations don't actually impose any such condition on replacements. So if it makes you feel any easier, the exemption for replacements says simply:

1. Work consisting of—

(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—

(i) any new fixed cabling, or

(ii) a consumer unit;

So there's nothing to say that a replacement light fitting has to be in any way like for like, or even remotely similar to the one being removed.

As for the new cable, surely you've discovered that the existing cable has been damaged, haven't you?

1. Work consisting of—

{.....}

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

 

[EFLImpudence]

I prefer heavy duty PVC conduit for outside wiring. I would bring the cable out through the wall into the back of a single entry box (screwed and sealed onto the wall with silicone) then on through conduit to a double entry box. The second entry on this box takes a short piece of conduit with a gland on the end, into which goes a very short loop of flex to your light. Join the cable to the flex with choc-block. This arrangement makes it easy to remove the light at a later date.

Overkill, surely. It's not a factory.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I was planning to improve this by:
i) feeding a FCU with a 3 amp fuse as a spur from the current sigle socket where the light is attached.
ii) This will then feed a 20A double pole (neon) switch.
iii) Final cabeling will be in 3 core 1.5 mm2 NYY cable secured to outside wall with appropriate clips.

i

Would it nt be easier to just replace the switch with a switched FCU with 2.5mm cable running from the socket to the FCU?

 

[AmateurFiFi]

Many thanks to you all.

Reasurring that "common sense" is still allowed.

As to TTC's comments, it would be much easier, the current single socket is in an ideal position, but is intermittently used for various item (hoover, electric piano, iron etc) so needs to be kept as there are no other sockets close enough to use as alternatives.

FiFi

 

[Space cat]

I think you've misread TTC's post. You don't replace the socket with a switched FCU. You spur off the socket with 2.5mm cable to a switched FCU in a convenient location. You were going to use a separate (unswitched) FCU followed by a double pole switch but you can have both in one box.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The real issue here is where the FCU or S/FCU is located, if it's in the kitchen it will be notifiable as you are altering a circuit which comes under special installations.
If the cable to the outside light fitting, enters the fitting directly without any external joints and the light is fitted to the side of your house, it's not notifiable.
So the matter would be where is the FCU or S/FCU going to be installed?

 

[Stoday]

if it's in the kitchen it will be notifiable as you are altering a circuit which comes under special installations.

A kitchen is not a special installation.

Nor is it a special location for that matter.

 

[Paul_C]

And for both kitchens and special locations, replacements of existing equipment and cables are not notifiable anyway.

 

[JohnW2]

if it's in the kitchen it will be notifiable as you are altering a circuit which comes under special installations.

A kitchen is not a special installation. Nor is it a special location for that matter.

True, but it is a kitchen:

2. Work which -
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of -
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

So, adding a fused spur to an existing circuit (which is what was being discussed) does not need to be notified unless it is in a kitchen or special location ...well, that's what it seems to me to be saying! Am I misreading or misunderstanding?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

if it's in the kitchen it will be notifiable as you are altering a circuit which comes under special installations.

A kitchen is not a special installation.

Nor is it a special location for that matter.

The point was that it is deemed notifiable, as a new FCU is being installed in a kitchen.
But I think you knew that, so your post was no help to the OP what so ever.
Quite pointless and only offering confusion.
AmateurFiFi: a bit of clarity for you.
A kitchen is not a special location, nor is it a special installation but it is an area that when an alteration of electrical circuits is undertaken within in it, that it comes under the same regulations as special location and special installation. So therefore becomes notifiable.
For some strange reason building controls decided not to offer the title of special location to the kitchen area, don't ask me why but that is how it is.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Am I misreading or misunderstanding?

Kind Regards, John.

no, that's correct.
You can add a FCU without the need of notification providing it is not part of special location/installation or kitchen.

 

[Space cat]

This might not be relevant but --

The OP isn't adding a new circuit in a kitchen. The connection has already been made - badly - so this is a repair. The existing cable is not fit for purpose so it has to be replaced (with 2.5mm). The existing switch is also not fit for purpose so it must also be replaced (with a switched FCU) which doesn't have to be in the kitchen.