Loft Boiler Installation Issues

[Tinkler]

Help me please, I'm having trouble making sense of the mentioned installation requirements. 3 installers tell me that the loft is the right place to install the boiler for my situation and all that is required is a secure surface to install it on, boarded loft floor, a fixed (non cord type)light switch and a permanent (non-removable) loft ladder. I go and make up a framework for the Boiler to be fixed to; which would be seated across 3 3"x 2"joists and fixed to the loft timbers only for one installer to come by and tell me it can't go where I planned for it; it (the framework) has to be seated on a wall (meaning directly on top of the walls on which the joists are seated) and not across the joists!!

He said building regs require it...phoned local BC dept, building surveyor tells me there are NO reg requirements for a loft installation but it should comply with CORGI requirements...phone CORGI, they say Can't tell me jack as I'm not blah blah...but installation should comply with BS 6798. To cut it short, is there anything there-in about lofts/boilers/joists/walls that would mean something to my situation?

The other installers (including one from BG) didn't mention anything and were happy about its location. Trying to find a suitable wall position would be very awkward.

 

[chrishutt]

If you want to fix the boiler to a vertical timber frame, you should check with the boiler manufacturer on their requirements. Clearly the frame must be rigid and able to bear the weight of the boiler. The frame itself must be supported by structural elements that can also bear the weight of boiler and frame.

If you are not able to make the necessary judgements yourself, you may need advice from a someone who understands the rudiments of structural engineering. The frame must be positioned to allow for the alignment and support of the flue, bearing in mind clearances from combustible material, as well as the gas and water connections.

 

[micky p]

if the installation site conforms to the manufactures instructions then it is fine....end of.

 

[scumbag]

You will get different opinons from different people on this - but the essential criteria is structural safety regarding the weight of any stored water cylinder. You don't really want 170 litres of boiling water washing down, together with a large amount of demolished building waste, on you when tucking into your christmas dinner, or the added expense of repairing & renewing same - assuming you survive?

3x2 timbers are only just about enough to support a plasterboard ceiling, and I would recommend over-engineering here - get some 6x3 stuff but what you haven't said is the length they will span? Don't lay them on top of the existing timbers - lay them in between so that they sit on the brickwork of the internal walls. The shorter the span the better - remember you will have the loaded water tank and associated pipework bearing down on this. You will also have someone standing in the area to service the thing as well as any assistants, mates and spectators!

The boiler shouldn't be a problem structurally as it usually goes on a wall?

 

[Agile]

The boiler should be mounted on a non combustible surface.

Thats behind the boiler. Plasterboard will do but superlux is better and Plumb Centre sell it is boiler sized bits.

You can use a cord pull light switch. Its the light which must be fixed i.e. not an extension lead!

The loft ladder may be retractable as long as its a fixed installation i.e. not a ladder from the shed.

I would strongly advise you have a pressure gauge and filling loop within the house to check and refil.

I would also have a gas isolating valve and electric switch within the house as well but then I do every to the best possible job.

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

Another requirement is protection to stop anyone falling down the loft hatch hole - ie like a railing.
Also remember the boiler's going to be the first thing to run dry if there's a slow leak you might not notice. Some boilers have pressure switches in them but many don't. If it didn't have one I would always fit one, to turn the boiler off.
Frost protection and insulation are very important too.
Not all boilers have to go an a non combustible surface - again check the instructions.

 

[Agile]

Most manufacturers do not mention the need for a non combustible surface in which case BS 5440 is refered to by CORGI as their bible !

Tony

 

[micky p]

most room sealed boilers are ok to mount on a wooden surface. but always refer to the manufactures instruction.

 

[ChrisR]

In my experience if the mfrs instructions don't say they need it, a phone call will comfirm they don't need it.

 

[Tinkler]

Many thanks guys for all your advice.

Only the one installer mentioned the positioning as an issue...he must sleep with the regs manual (or whatever it is) under his pillow..was reeling of regs all the time, even criticised the the height of gas fire flues he saw on the property saying they were not up to current regs, even though I told him they were installed about 20 odd years ago!...oh yes also mentioned the joists (size off) didn't meet regs either, but they've been there from the time the property was erected!

As regards the boiler siting, it will be in the loft which has no walls (detached property) or chimmney stacks to fix against; so will be fixed against the rafters support and to the existing joists. Boiler and frame will weigh approx 72k (dry weight); it is a combi so there is no tank to consider. I stood on a single joist with the frame (total weight 98k)and it did not even creak. With the frame seated across 3 joists I think it would be OK. With the boiler position on the joists just .75m from the wall the joists are sitting on, anybody working/servicing the boiler would not be a problem as they would physically be almost on the wall position.

 

[Diyisfun]

Agile
I would strongly advise you have a pressure gauge and filling loop within the house to check and refil.

Could not agree more. Unfortunatly I havnt

 

[Tinkler]

Agile
I would strongly advise you have a pressure gauge and filling loop within the house to check and refil.

Could not agree more. Unfortunatly I havnt

Can someone direct (link) me to a good quality gauge...I'm assuming the gauge will be fixed permanently in its position but the fill loop will be detachable.

 

[chrishutt]

www.BES.ltd.uk stock all that sort of stuff. Difficult site to navigate around though.

 

[Tinkler]

What gives with you installers? Just had an installer come to look at job and he flatly said you can't have a boiler in a loft unless fixed to a wall...can't have it fixed to a timber frame. I told him I've had several come down and tell me it's OK (including BG man)...I told him I've had the manufacturers man come down and look at situation and he said it was fine...told him I believe the manufacturer's installation spec overrules CORGI (as I've been told) but he said that wasn't right and was adamant about it. Said it was a fire risk due to all the timber and the flue being hot could set it on fire. Although the flue would not be in direct contact with any timber he seemed to think it was an issue...I said I thought that on the modern sealed system boilers the flues (outer one on a vertical concentric flue) didn't get hot..he said they do get quite hot. Getting quite peed off here; can't seem to get any consistency in their views!

 

[kevplumb]

What gives with you installers?

we try not to kill our customers

cos thats where the brass comes from bonny lad