Loft Flooded

[datadiyer]

Hi Everyone,

I really hope someone can advise me. My wife or I have supidly left the loft window unlocked yesterday and strong winds have blown it wide open and rain has flooded my boarded floor loft. It has seeped through to the bedroom ceiling below and caused bubbling on the wallpapered ceiling (it's got a little worse since pics were taken) I'm not sure what to do. Obviously I have a small radiator in loft and heating on full, but I know there's loft insulation inbetween loft joists (don't know if these would dry out), also whether to strip the wallpapered ceiling (it's a lathe&plaster ceiling), worried about having moldy ceilings, could anyone advise best course of action? Not sure if i'm covered by buildings insuranace as I don't have accidental cover.

Very many thanks,
Datadiyer. View media item 70392 View media item 70393
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[geraldthehamster]

If there is insulation between the boarding and the ceiling, I'd have thought the boarding might need to come up, for it to have a chance to dry out. Might also be advisable to remove the insulation to give the ceiling a chance.

Must have been a hell of a rain storm.

Cheers
Richard

 

[HERTS P&D]

This will be an insurance job.

The chipboard flooring and insulation needs taking up and throwing away, the ceiling might need to come down depending how wet they are.

Andy

 

[datadiyer]

Hi,
Thanks HERTSDRAINAGE2010 & geraldthehamster, yes the ceiling is pretty wet, i've just peeled off the bubbly ceiling wallpaper to at least prevent mold. It's lath & plaster ceiling so not sure how well they dry out? The loft boarding looks fairly dry this morning but being chipboard I guess they'd be like a sponge in the middle of the boards. It was bad enough for puddles to form on the carpet & chest of drawers, a couple of watches got wet but think they still work. Just hope i'm insured as I don't fancy pulling lath & plaster ceiling down . Although I remember hoovering between the joists before the chippy boarded up. I don't know if i'm insured until tomorrow when Churchill claims line opens. I have buildings & contents cover with them, but only contents have accidental cover, don't know if they'll cover it?

Thanks guys.

 

[maltaron]

I would respectively suggest that you do not stand under that lath and plaster ceiling, you are likely to get a very sore head when it comes down, as it will!

 

[datadiyer]

Thanks Maltaron,
Lol, thanks for your advice, I don't fancy pulling that ceiling down myself, think i'm gonna hire someone with a hard hat.
Cheers,
Datadiyer.

 

[KenGMac]

datadiyer, Hi.

As has bee posted, this is an insurance job.

But get all your "facts" correct PRIOR to making [Intimating] the claim. You will need to prove that on the day, and indeed the actual "TIME" of the "event" Storm Conditions prevailed? that is [generally] wind speeds at or in excess of 50MPH, or 60MPH Etc. If you look at your policy booklet it will tell you in there when your particular policy will "ACCEPT" a claim for "STORM" the two wind speeds are a generalisation of what differing insurers use as the base to accept a storm claim.

There are web based programmes that record wind speeds in your post code. Insurers use a thing called "Weathernet" I use "World of Weather" these two programmes can scroll back in time and tell you what the wind was doing in MPH

For example if I am looking at a "storm claim" the Loss adjuster or insurer I am working for will most probably give me the data that they have from Weathernet to confirm as to whether "Storm conditions were present and acting at or around the day of the event being claimed for"

Don't forget the weather may have been recorded as a "Storm" for the purposes of the Insurer, but a day before you began to notice that the ceilings Etc. were "wet" But the time the rain water ponded on the Chipboard, seeped into it saturated the insulation and settled on the lath and Plaster to finally be visible on the surface of the ceiling does not occur instantly.

As to how the Velux roof window "popped open?" now that is a potential problem? the Insurer will want to find out why the window opened, was it left "open deliberately?"

CAUTION. at this point I best attempt to explain my typing of "Deliberately" because ALL Insurers are "Paranoid" about the "POTENTIAL" for attempted fraud, and a Velux "popping open" could be construed by a Telephone claims handler as such.

PLEASE NOTE. at no time am I accusing or inferring any fraudulent activity. on your part, I am attempting to advise and inform on some of the inner "thought processes" that prevail within the insurance industry. That is if it is an "Odd Event" then the Telephone handler may flag the claim as being in need of investigation?

It could be that the windows latch was "Sticky" at times and a squirt of WD40 has sorted it? or someone left the window open? not in the depths of Winter.

Given the Pictures posted you are looking at a lot of ££ to sort this out.
Lift the loft floor, replace it.
Loose and replace the insulation.
Remove and replace the Insulation.
Remove and replace the lath and Plaster Ceilings
Re-dec the rooms affected.
On and On.
This near to Christmas ?

Hope in some way this gives you some "insight" to my world well someone has to work in the insurance industry I suppose.

Would be interested in knowing how you get on with this.

lots of luck.

Ken

 

[datadiyer]

Hi Ken,
Thank you so much for your advice, it really is invaluable and appreciated. The problem I have is, although I have OCD and i'm fairly careful in checking that the doors & windows are shut, only in this case, I must have left the Velux window open as I can't see how it could have blown open otherwise. In which case, I guess I will be covered on my contents cover as I have 'accidental damage' but not on the Buildings cover (both with same insurer). Subsequently, I guess I wouldn't be covered for the damage to the ceiling & loft flooring

Many thanks,
Datadiyer

 

[maltaron]

If the ceiling does not fall itself you have one slight advantage when it is taken down-If its soaking wet there will be less dust!!

 

[KenGMac]

datadiyer, Hi., again.

My original post was meant to give a hint as to what you can expect from the insurer, have you managed to check with a weather programme, especially wind speed around the time of the incident, that is crucial to the progress of the "Building" claim

If you have A/D [Accidental Damage] for contents, then this could be a "back door" into the building claim.

Having said that it is all dependant on which insurer you have, what never ceases to amaze me is the disparity between Insurers over what are identical events.

It could be that in your case, if there was a Gale or at the very least strong winds blowing on the day you found the flooding, or on the day before. Opening an outer front or rear door "could have" caused the loft Velux to "pop open" because of the very sudden air pressure change in the house? combined with a slightly sticky Velux window latch?

If you do have A/D for Contents then I for one would make a claim, providing the insurer with all the facts as you see them.

This will probably then bring about a visit from either a representative of the Insurer who will work "direct" for that Insurer or, from a Loss Adjusting firm who will have been given a delegated authority to work "for and on behalf of" the Insurer, or [hope you are still here?] A "Validation Company" who have a remit similar to the loss Adjuster [the difference is academic as far as you are concerned] But in Law there are differences, don't go there.

Now that I have thoroughly BORED you with only some of the internal machinations of the insurance Industry, I hope you are armed enough to go forth and if you see fit make at least one, Contents claim.

And finally if you do claim your "Premiums" will rise.

regards.

ken

 

[datadiyer]

Firstly Ken, you could never bore me with your insight. It is most helpful & your time replying most appreciated I can tell you. I phoned my insurer today, and, before I told him my policy number, I asked him if just enquiring about a potential claim, would I be blackmarked and he replied absolutely not, so long as the claim isn't kept open. Anyway, after I explained what had happened, he put me on hold, came back on the phone and basically said that there was nothing in the policy document that says I can't be covered for building damage due to weather damage, even if I did unintentially leave the window open. He also acknowleged there were high winds in my area at the time. He then said that it may be wise to allow it to dry out first before proceeding (although I dont think it will as it has rockwool insulation full of water resting above it). He advised me to get a builder to price up the work and get back to them. He seemed very helpful, and also advised not to tell the builder it was covered by the insurence as the builders tend to beef up the price. Also if the price seems unreasonable, then they may send an assessor out. So I have a builder coming in the morning to take a look. I'll upload some more pics tomorrow on the ceiling riddled with damp patches. Thanks again Ken, i'll keep posted as you asked in your earlier post.
Kind Regards,
Datadiyer.

 

[KenGMac]

datadiyer, Hi again.

So far so good.

Firstly start taking notes as to who you talked to in the Insurance Company, and as much info on what was discussed and when.

It is good if you can start to use e-mails, because there are permanent "records" of date / time and content. [as an aside I for one find e-mails faster to compose and they are more "end user friendly" in that I tend to devolve to first name terms, also as far as I am concerned I do not want to start a letter " We are in receipt and thank you for your letter of --- No matter what drivel it contained]

Reason for records are that if and I stress IF this claim does not go to your liking and you need to make [intimate] a "Complaint" then all the records are available. on the other hand a "handler / Adjuster" can respond fast to e-mails with little or no effort.

As for Contents, make a list in "word" of the damaged goods, if you feel like it place costs to replace against each item [if you can] the replacement cost is todays costs, for example a 42inch Plasma TV several years ago would be £1,000, but at todays cost a lot less !

On the contents front the Insurer can and will at times reduce the cash settlement to reflect "wear and tear?" all insurers will reduce the replacement cost of clothing and bedding by 50%

Most if not all Insurers will take your list and provide you with "vouchers" to present at some well known high Street stores to go and get "replacement " articles, such as Electrical goods, beds, carpets, linen and clothing.

getting back to you providing "estimates" and NOT telling the Contractor this is an INSURANCE JOB £ £ £ £ It is a sad fact of life that some NOT ALL Contractors will bump up the costs.
I can feel the HOT breath of a group of regular contributors in here breathing down my fingers as I type?

The Insurance claim is a complex affair and a lot is dependant on which Insurer you have [as previously stated] and the individual "Handler" that answers your Phone call.

Cheers.

ken

Hope it goes well from here on in.

Ken

 

[datadiyer]

Hi Ken,

Nothing much to report, builder came round and is going to give me a quote. I know I should get a few quotes, but this builder did some other work for us and we wouldn't really want anyone else. They were an honest hard working bunch of guys so we'll see what the quote comes back as. I'll let you know with the possible insurance claim. Just hope the ceiling doesn't fall down! At least until new year anyway!

Cheers,
Datadiyer.

 

[KenGMac]

datadiyer, good evening.

So far so good.

More "insurance insight?"

Some Insurers will demand more than one "Customer Estimate" be obtained, that is what the handlers are instructed to do BUT.

If the Builder knows that it is an insurance job, some but NOT all will request a fee to provide an estimate, quite correctly, because if our "notional builder" say spends a load of time providing cost break downs on lets say 2 jobs a day, but does not "win" any of the work, in effect the time spent on Estimating for these jobs all takes time = a COST it is not un-common for builders to request a payment to provide an estimate.

As for your position at present, all you need to say to your Insurer is that this is your preferred builder because you know and trust Him, and that you will be un-easy at any other builder undertaking the repair.

Now this is where these series of small "Weather events "Clicks in" if your Insurer asks for other [possibly 2 more] estimates you tell them .
A/. The estimate that has been provided is from a builder that you have used on previous occasions.
B/. No other local Builder will give you am Estimate, they are all too busy !

Hope all on track.

Ken

 

[datadiyer]

Hi All,

Sorry, a rather long delay with this. It is still as it was when the flood happened (and the Lathe & plaster ceiling hasn't come down yet..woo..hooo). I have been given a deadline with Churchill insurance by Tuesday whether I want to pursue the claim. I've had a quote of £2000 for:
- Taking ceiling down.
- New insulation (rigid boards) between joists.
- Re-boarding & plaster ceiling.
- Skim the whole bedroom walls.
- Decorate the bedroom.

It does not include lifting the wooden flooring up. However i've been up there last few days and although the boarding seems ok, I see there are water stains in quite a few places (see pics). Would replacing the wooden flooring be deemed necessary? I guess it's not the same strength as it was but who knows? I'm not sure whether to go through the insuance TBH. Would anyone have any advice on what to do? I guess I could get it corrected for £1000, but would the cost to have the loft floor replaced through the insurance be worth the increase in my insurance premiums next time round?
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