Minor works cert replacement boilers?

[Livesgas]

Job example.
Replace existing combi boiler, connect new flex to existing fused spur or socket. No alteration to existing circuit.
Is a minor works cert and part p reg required?

 

[riveralt]

Job example.
Replace existing combi boiler, connect new flex to existing fused spur or socket. No alteration to existing circuit.
Is a minor works cert and part p reg required?

Electrically must be comply with part p - but no need to notify - minor works (single circuit )certificate is okay.
Probably need to notify Gas-Safe re-new boiler though.

 

[JohnW2]

Replace existing combi boiler, connect new flex to existing fused spur or socket. No alteration to existing circuit. Is a minor works cert and part p reg required?

Electrically must be comply with part p - but no need to notify - minor works (single circuit )certificate is okay.

Does connecting a new appliance to an existing FCU or socket (particularly if 'connecting to socket' means 'plug it in'!) really require a MWC? Is it (particularly 'plug it in'!) materially different from, say, 'changing a lght bulb'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

It is a watch my back situation if it does not plug in and you have altered in any way then Minor Works not only looks good to customer but also protects you as if they do fiddle you have some way to show you did all reasonably possible to ensure safe when you left.

An electrician came to my mothers to hard wire the door access and they could not find a 12VDC transformer so used a 13A socket and a transformer built into the plug. I am sure they intended to put a sticker on it do not unplug and for door bell only but forgot.

So my mother has a 4 way extension and also charges her wheel chair from it. Since there is paperwork but not a minor works should my mum get a shock that firm is up the creak without a paddle.

Making out the Minor Works jogs one to check and simple things like not putting a sticker on something it highlighted as you make it out.

As to if you MUST make one out I suspect the answer is yes not because of electrical rules but because of general health and safety rules. Any report connected with health and safety must be in writing. If for example I noted an oil spill and verbally reported to my boss then when some one was injured told the HSE I had told my boss about it but then admitted not in writing I would be done for not putting it in writing.

So before connecting a new item one would always test the supply so it would be for the courts to decide if not writing down the results was a breach of health and safety rules. Personally although one may get away with it I don't want to be the guy fighting a test case so would seem simpler to just make out the minor works certificate.

Likely writing the readings on back of fag packet and handing to boss would comply with regulations.

 

[Adam_151]

Does connecting a new appliance to an existing FCU or socket (particularly if 'connecting to socket' means 'plug it in'!) really require a MWC? Is it (particularly 'plug it in'!) materially different from, say, 'changing a lght bulb'?

Kind Regards, John

Think the NIC like you too, or at least thats what we get told. I normally do a quick loop test at the spur and mark the rest of the tests as limitations. I think on the whole the reason they like you too is so that your are signing a declaration for the work.

 

[Adam_151]

Likely writing the readings on back of fag packet and handing to boss would comply with regulations.

Would normally result in being asked "what the f*** is that, I haven't got time to write your certs out for you!"

 

[JohnW2]

Does connecting a new appliance to an existing FCU or socket (particularly if 'connecting to socket' means 'plug it in'!) really require a MWC? Is it (particularly 'plug it in'!) materially different from, say, 'changing a lght bulb'?

Think the NIC like you too, or at least thats what we get told. I normally do a quick loop test at the spur and mark the rest of the tests as limitations. I think on the whole the reason they like you too is so that your are signing a declaration for the work.

Fair enough. Does that even include the situation in which you plug it in to an existing socket?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I was once told if I fitted a plug on a kettle in a shop I could just hand it to customer but do same job in their home I should test the socket.

The was a court case where there was a fault on a boiler when it was switched off but no fault would be found in the on position seems the on/off switch was a two way switch and the unused wire had in error been pushed onto a earth cluster of spade connectors.

Also there was a fault with the socket in that no earth was connected.

The electrician had been called back twice with reports of some one getting a shock and that point was raised but the point was that case was where it was stated that the socket should have been tested.

This was told to us in college and since then I have tried to find the details of the case and failed so it may have been invented by the lecturer but as I said before I don't want the be the guy fighting a test case so I will continue to make out a minor works certificate.

 

[JohnW2]

I was once told if I fitted a plug on a kettle in a shop I could just hand it to customer but do same job in their home I should test the socket.

OK. I know it's extreme, and a cliche, but I suppose I have to ask .... what about 'changing a light bulb' (in a customer's home)?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[riveralt]

Does connecting a new appliance to an existing FCU or socket (particularly if 'connecting to socket' means 'plug it in'!) really require a MWC? Is it (particularly 'plug it in'!) materially different from, say, 'changing a lght bulb'?

What a strange comparison.

 

[JohnW2]

Does connecting a new appliance to an existing FCU or socket (particularly if 'connecting to socket' means 'plug it in'!) really require a MWC? Is it (particularly 'plug it in'!) materially different from, say, 'changing a lght bulb'?

What a strange comparison.

Why do you say that? What is the material difference between plugging a new appliance into a socket and inserting a new lamp into a lampholder? Would it be different, if the 'new appliance' was a new table lamp which one plugged into a socket?

Kind Regards, John

 

[riveralt]

Does connecting a new appliance to an existing FCU or socket (particularly if 'connecting to socket' means 'plug it in'!) really require a MWC? Is it (particularly 'plug it in'!) materially different from, say, 'changing a lght bulb'?

What a strange comparison.

Why do you say that?

Because you are comparing chalk and cheese.
How is replacing a lamp bulb comparable with (fitting a new boiler) then connecting a new cable from the boiler to the FCU or socket.
Where do you think the electricians responsibilities end at the FCU/socket or the boiler?
If the decision is the FCU then the circuit testing ends at the FCU/Socket and the MWC records that fact. If it ends at the boiler the MWC should reflect that.
Are you seriously saying that in neither of the above cases you would issue a MW (Single Circuit) Certificate.
Is this just so you can have a lively debate in court when the boiler's motherboard fries.

 

[JohnW2]

Because you are comparing chalk and cheese. How is replacing a lamp bulb comparable with (fitting a new boiler) then connecting a new cable from the boiler to the FCU or socket. ... Where do you think the electricians responsibilities end at the FCU/socket or the boiler? ... If the decision is the FCU then the circuit testing ends at the FCU/Socket and the MWC records that fact. If it ends at the boiler the MWC should reflect that.

We'll probably have to disagree about this. Firstly, don't forget that we are (probably) not talking about an electrician.

If we stick to the simple 'plugging into a socket' case (although I don't see connection to an FCU as being much difference), what I'm really questioning is whether the circuit needs testing. If a consumer went out and bought some new appliance (whether TV, oven, microwave, kettle, fan heater or whatever) they would simply plug it into a socket (just as they would insert a lamp into a lampholder), without any testing of that socket circuit. Why is the boiler different from that - is it just because the plug, and maybe cable, has been 'fitted' by the boiler fitter? Or are you perhaps saying that if an electrician supplied and delivered a TV, microwave, oven etc., they would have to test the circuit before they could plug it in for the customer (maybe to 'demo' it), "because they were an electrician"?

I genuinely do not fully understand how far you feel this has to be taken.

Kind Regards, John

 

[riveralt]

I genuinely do not fully understand how far you feel this has to be taken.

You're the one who seems to want to take to extremes.
The OP asked the question I answered how I would do it in the circumstances he describes.
In response to your later questions in which you for some reason extend it to include changing a lamp bulb - I asked the question about where do you think the electricians responsibility ends - but you are now saying he is probably not an electrician.
That doesn't make any difference - if the person who connects the boiler to the power supply hasn't tested that supply first then more fool him - because he will be the one who ends up paying for a new boiler board if the circuit has been wired incorrectly.

 

[ericmark]

I was once told if I fitted a plug on a kettle in a shop I could just hand it to customer but do same job in their home I should test the socket.

OK. I know it's extreme, and a cliche, but I suppose I have to ask .... what about 'changing a light bulb' (in a customer's home)?!

Kind Regards, John

I think you really have a good point there which is why I tried to find the case again. I had expected it to be a proportioned blame between electrician fitting socket and one fitting boiler as it took both faults for it to become a danger.

Since there is no earth on a BA22d lamp holder there is in real terms nothing to test however changing a tube on a florescent fitting clearly to test the earth each time is unreasonable yet there could be a danger.

Clearly up to courts to decide and from memory there was a big thing made about him returning twice and had the guy died without the electrician being called back then likely there would have been a different outcome even though the fault was the same.

But my point is the minor works certificate protects us, and when things go wrong to be able to say here are the readings I got which lead me to believe there was nothing wrong, would likely give one a get out of jail free card, even when the fault is really down to you.

Most customers will not keep it anyway but it's you not them it protects.